[FIX] Daylight Saving Time

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inque187
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Post by inque187 »

:?: Ok then who else uses DST in the besides Arizona? Last time I was in school (and in Arizona) it was only Arizona that did not observe DST in the USA.

:arrow: Also when messages are posted in the database the time is stamped according to the time set on the forum. When the time changes back (after this weird buggy time thingy) the database does not update the stored info and or update to the correct times. Hence - you have to change the time on the entered data to the correct time.
inque187
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Post by inque187 »

twmm wrote: The timezones of your users are IRRELEVANT!!!! The timezone of your forum IS RELEVANT!!!!


Then why are we having this bug and it affects certain users and not the total users of phpBB?

I know that my server that phpbb resides on is time synched everyday and also my PC (running WinXP) is time synched everyday but yet my time on the forum is still off by 12 hours. But when I delete the forum cookie and refresh the page in the browser - all is well?

So - tell me exactly is going on with this?
Aristotle
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Post by Aristotle »

The issue is simply a clash of paradigms. The author of the mod has an unusual point of view (unusual in that it seems to be in the minority), and the mod has been written to reflect that point of view. The mod works... so long as you understand that it gives priority of the time according to the server over that of the time according to the user.

The opposite side of this are those folks who view the users, and what the users see, as the priority. I have to say that I'm in that camp as well... Most organizations and webmasters could care less what time it is on their server. All that matters is that the users see the correct times (no matter where they are). The website is a tool for the users, the users do not exist to to facilitate the website. So, in this point of view, the website should be making things as easy for the users as possible... and hopefully doing so behind the scenes so the user sees a seamlessly integrated site.

The answer is simple... if your in the second group, use another DST mod.
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twmm
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Post by twmm »

@inque

Regarding Who and where DST is observed in the US - See posting: http://www.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.ph ... 013#621013

Regarding the time zone of your forums: Go to your Admin Control Panel, Configuration Page. Then set your Board time zone to where in the world you are. You currently have your Board time zone set to GMT (aka UT) which is England. Then set your profile time zone. That should fix your problems.

TW
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twmm
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Post by twmm »

Aristotle wrote: The author of the mod has an unusual point of view (unusual in that it seems to be in the minority), and the mod has been written to reflect that point of view. The mod works... so long as you understand that it gives priority of the time according to the server over that of the time according to the user.


First: I don't remember a poll being taken. Was I out of the building when it was? My point of view is based upon experience with running a variety of forums, websites, networks, mainframes, etc for numerous years... more than I wish to count.

Second: the forum must be a base point for time date stamps. If you consider that the forum is a stationary destination, i.e. people go to the forum, the forun does not come to them, the time date stamps maintained by the forum are more critical than the time zones in which the forum members reside. Once you have a base time date stamp system with consistent time date stamps, the forum members can adjust the way that they view these consistent time date stamps via their individual profile time zones.

If you wish a broad example, take a look at your airline tickets the next time you travel anywhere. The arrival times are local times for the arrival city, not the time relative to the departure city. This example is consistent with the idea that a forum is a destination.

Also, go back to http://www.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.ph ... 554#526554. I have added some additional reference URLs.

Regards,
TW
SpoiledLittleLucy
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Post by SpoiledLittleLucy »

can someone explain very simply what this mod is supposed to do? I've read the whole thread and while twmm keeps shouting that it's the server time that's important he doesn't really explain very well what the misunderstanding is over.

Here is what I know about time and message boards, hopefully this will give context for the explanation.

-The server has a time, and it's in a certain time zone.

-When you install the board, in the admin cp the time zone is set as GMT

-Let's say the server and I are both in the eastern time zone, let's also say I've got a friend who's in GMT.

-If the admin cp is set at GMT and if my friend then selects GMT for their timezone, they'll have the wrong time displayed, same as if I select EST.

-SO, for people to have the right timezone displayed you have to tell the board what timezone the server is set to. I have to select EST in the admin cp.

Ok now throw in DST.

-I observe DST, so I set my time to GMT -4 instead of -5

-the server clock did not change for DST

Now I have a computer and windows lets you select whether or not I observe DST. My trillian, for example, timestamps my messages based on the clock on my computer, similar to how my forum timestamps messages based on the server time. If I check DST in windows then my trillian history will timestamp my messages with EDT.

Now, let's say that the server clock changes to EDT. The board is still set to EST, therefore my friend using GMT would find that the board is off by an hour from the actual GMT.

What I thought I was figuring out was that this mod would allow for the server to change into DST without messing up the GMT or without having to go into the admin cp and changing the server time back or forward an hour so that users who select GMT (and the other standard times) have the right time.

I'm not so sure about that now. I *think* that's what twmm said in the last post.

Anyways, I'd like to know what this mod actually does, and from the looks of it twmm wouldn't mind the rest of us catching on either, so hopefully you guys'll bear with and someone can say what *exactly* this mod does. Did I get it right?
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twmm
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Post by twmm »

SpoiledLittleLucy wrote: can someone explain very simply what this mod is supposed to do?

Correctly interpret your time date stamps as being "Daylight/Summer" time date stamps.
SpoiledLittleLucy wrote: I've read the whole thread and while twmm keeps shouting

I have not been shouting. THIS IS SHOUTING!
SpoiledLittleLucy wrote: ... he doesn't really explain very well what the misunderstanding is over.

Since it is not my misunderstanding, I can't explain it. I can only suggest that you (or anyone else) go back to the first posting, http://www.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.ph ... 554#526554 and peruse the Reference URLs. Then
  1. Set your board's time zone via the ACP
  2. Set your profile time zone
  3. Create some postings.
  4. Take note of the time date stamps of the newly created postings.
  5. Install the mod.
  6. Review the previously noted time date stamps
What is critical to remember: your forum is a point of destination, a place to which you go.

TW
SpoiledLittleLucy
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Post by SpoiledLittleLucy »

well then I take it I am completely off with how it works? Am I close? Could you take one of the statements I made and extrapolate on it to explain how your mod works?

meh you shouted a couple times.

Well if no one in this thread is sure of what your intent is then you must not be communicating yourself well enough for your audience to understand you. It was quite obvious that you didn't understand why no one understood you, which is why I took a crack at explaining stuff and giving further discussion a simple basis to continue from.

ok one more try

Does your mod do what I said in my last post and detect whether the machine's clock changed for DST and offset that so the standard times still reflect standard time?

OR

Does your mod automatically adjust the admin panel time for daylight savings time so that someone who is not logged in sees the correct time of where the board is hosted (i.e. they see EDT instead of EST) without the admin changing the admin panel timezone? (this would make someone who selected GMT in their profile see the wrong time)

OR does it do something else?
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-=ET=-
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Post by -=ET=- »

Hi guys,

I have something for you...
http://www.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=115692

Tell me what you think of it :roll:

-----------

About this topic and this fix, I think:

1. Board's time zone in the ACP has NO effect on board times.
It's just like Default Style, Default Language and Date Format, only a default preselection to help create new user's profile.

2. I confirm that the times stored in the phpBB DB are GMT/UTC ones. So they are COMPLETELY INDEPENDANT of their display by the create_date function.

3. For me this fix work well but can only be used in very precise cases :

o This fix is useless if your host forum server is not applying DST for itself (it means if the server is not in a DST concerned zone, or is not set to apply DST for any reason).

o The code of this fix must be adapt if your host forum server is in a 1/2h offset DST zone. By default, it adds 1h and do not check for the real value applied by the server.

o Next your users must be in the same state as the server to be sure that it's DST flag will switch at the right date, the same as their one (same geographical/political DST area once again).
In any other case, even if user's states use DST and are near the state where the server is located, the different states can switch at the same date/time or not, and this can change at any time by a political decision.
So this is not a good situation.

In fact, if you want to use the server information, your users must be in the same DST political zone !
If not, this fix can't do anything for you if you want to be always sure to have valid offsets at right dates.
In this case, the only solutions is to switch manualy, or to use user's local computeur DST settings because THEY are correctly set for their local DST political conditions.

And then... have a look at the third mode of my MOD which with JavaScript help do exactly this :wink:
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twmm
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Post by twmm »

-=ET=- wrote: About this topic and this fix, I think:

1. Board's time zone in the ACP has NO effect on board times.
It's just like Default Style, Default Language and Date Format, only a default preselection to help create new user's profile.

To say that the ACP time zone for the board has NO affect on the board times is incorrect. This is/has been one of the issues that has caused misunderstanings in this topic. While there is some truth in your summarization, it is incorrect in that the ACP time zone selected does affect how dates are displayed.

While it is nice that your MOD allows the user to change THEIR personal DST values, once again... may I remind you that a forums is a destination point... just as a trip on a cross country bus, train, or airplane has a destination point. How you set the time on the watch on your wrist or in your pocket has no bearing on the actual time and/or time zone of your destination point.

My FIX (MOD), as I presented it, works and works well.

Regards,
TW
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-=ET=-
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Post by -=ET=- »

twmm wrote: My FIX (MOD), as I presented it, works and works well.

Sure your fix works well, I never say anything else :wink:

But, can you explain me how the ACP board time zone affect the forums dates ? I'm not convinced, I never see any effect and you don't explain it's effect :roll:

Thanks.
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twmm
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Post by twmm »

-=ET=- wrote: But, can you explain me how the ACP board time zone affect the forums dates ?

Since you are in France, set you ACP Board time zine to +10, set your personnal time zone to anything but 0. (I presume that you have both currently set to 0). Log off, and look at the index page for your Forums... all the way to the bottom... observing the times, including the line that states "All times are GMT + 10 Hours". Make sure you observe the posted times of the Forums... then log in. Look again. And if you post something, you will see a similar effect for your post after you log off. The time zone of the board is established and maintained via the ACP. Reset your time zones, log off, and look again.

Regards,
TW
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-=ET=-
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Post by -=ET=- »

Yes, you're right and I remember that too about 1/2h after I wrote my previous message but I was on week-end and I can't edit my post.
This setting is used to set dates for non registered visitors, that's right :wink:

But, you agree that it has no effect on connected visitors?
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wysiwygs
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Works GREAT!

Post by wysiwygs »

In the words of Tony the Tiger: this mod works GREAT!!!

Wysiwygs
mrguytx
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Post by mrguytx »

Fixed my forum, thanks!
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