why phpBB will have to be a subproject of phpPP

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vandal
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why phpBB will have to be a subproject of phpPP

Post by vandal » Sun Nov 18, 2001 10:30 pm

I am just showing this off as an example
the posts (and topics for the titles) tables are scanned and the words in the posts will be looked up in the wordlist table, then one line for every unique word in the posting is inserted in the wordmatch table (according with the number of times the word occurs in that post) and with a flag that indicates if this word is present in the title of the post.


note the last potion of that statement
there is a flag that specifies if the search word was in the topic of the post
this works well for the forum since each post consists of a topic and a text

but this does not work for alot of other things
-> a portal needs a more flexible searchsystem

the same will hold true in alot of other places, where a portal needs to be more flexible than a forum
this can of course sometimes lead to necessary changes to the forum and probably in a slight performance decrease for the forum (its hard to be the best at everything)

so if you want to easily searchenable every new module you will have to change the searchsystem (will the phpBB team be ok with this?) -> the forum will be nothing more than a really good and important module within an application framework (even if the application framework has taken most of its core components from the module at the start)

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Post by psoTFX » Sun Nov 18, 2001 10:45 pm

Let me say this in a few simple words so no one misunderstands :)

phpBB will not be a subproject of 'phpPP' or whatever it gets called, this will never change (at least not while James, Bart, myself and I dare say most/all the other developers(!) are involved).

That is not our goal and similarly quite possibly will not be necessary ... a text search system (what else will you search on if not text?) can be adapted to take and store data froma range of sources, I don't see an issue here at this moment (I fully admit we'll have to see how things go).

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Post by vandal » Sun Nov 18, 2001 11:15 pm

of course such a system can easily be modifed ... but you previously stated that you are unwilling to do so and I am pointing to where this attitude could limit the development

i can't see where a forum should be the container of a portal framework
if you just don't like the idea of phpBB being a subproject then think of it like there is the Core component (that will largely be based on the phpBB 2.0 components with some slight modifications), and then there are a bunch of modules ... and the mother of all modules is the forum

otherwise I don't see the point in calling this thing a portal system ... it will only be a forum that has losts it's focus (I think I read a comment on how the current poll system is not really flexible enough to live outside of the context of the forum which is sort of unfortunate but a simple reality of hacks that are added to one system where a modular framework would make more sense)

ok I give up :)
it seems I cannot make you understand the issues at hand

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Post by psoTFX » Sun Nov 18, 2001 11:35 pm

It's not a case of 'understanding issues', James started the Group to produce a forum ... that is our goal and our focus of attention, hence 2.x. I know for certain that James will not support phpBB turning into 'phpPP', for that matter neither will I and I'm sure that goes for most if not all the other devs.

Interest has grown in producing a portal utilising phpBB, the Group is very happy to support this and assuming they wish to, bring it under the phpBB Group umbrella. This will allow the portal developers close interaction (and as I've now said on several occasions ... ) the ability to influence phpBB.

I did not say phpBB 2.x will not change to accomodate something the portal may require. I clearly said more than once that it will not change if that change is detrimental to the forum. Now common sense suggests that if a change is detrimental to one thing, and in this case the major component of the project, then it's a 'bad idea' anyway and should be re-assessed to find an alternative, superior solution.

And on that note, we're 'finished' so to speak ... there is no point in anyone trying to 'persuade' the Group to alter focus and produce a portal with a forum as its subproject ... as I've said, it won't be happening any time soon.

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Post by Pit » Sun Nov 18, 2001 11:35 pm

vandal wrote: of course such a system can easily be modifed ... but you previously stated that you are unwilling to do so and I am pointing to where this attitude could limit the development

i can't see where a forum should be the container of a portal framework
if you just don't like the idea of phpBB being a subproject then think of it like there is the Core component (that will largely be based on the phpBB 2.0 components with some slight modifications), and then there are a bunch of modules ... and the mother of all modules is the forum

otherwise I don't see the point in calling this thing a portal system ... it will only be a forum that has losts it's focus (I think I read a comment on how the current poll system is not really flexible enough to live outside of the context of the forum which is sort of unfortunate but a simple reality of hacks that are added to one system where a modular framework would make more sense)

ok I give up :)
it seems I cannot make you understand the issues at hand


The portal is a project which is "under the umbrella" of the phpBB group. Just as the portals that interacted with phpBB 1.* were seperate, this is also seperate, even if the phpBB developers have an influence.
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Post by AL » Mon Nov 19, 2001 2:33 am

i'm still confused as to why the current poll system is not good enuff for the portal? what does it lack??
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Post by vandal » Mon Nov 19, 2001 6:02 pm

I did not say phpBB 2.x will not change to accomodate something the portal may require


this is the first time you have said something like this ..
anyways if you are willing to do this .. then its just a matter of perspective what is the subproject of what ... its just more likely that necessary changes will be "suggested" from the portal side of things in the long run (obviously this will be very true in the beginning)

it would just be unfortunate if those suggestion cannot be incorporated into phpBB because it would complicate things more than the phpBB dev team is willing to accept and therefore the phpPP will have to include a different version of very similar functionality

but I hope this will not happen and I wish you all the best of luck in this project

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Post by psoTFX » Mon Nov 19, 2001 6:07 pm

http://phpbb.sf.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=12896#12896

Are you sure I've never said that before Vandal? ;)

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Post by vandal » Mon Nov 19, 2001 6:36 pm

If the portal requires something be done a certain way and that changes enabling this don't effect phpBB (or better yet, help improve phpBB) then the phpBB team will obviously consider making such changes.


don't you think this is a bit naiv? .. of course all changes will effect phpBB .. those changes might not be dramatic (as in my searchengine example) but in some cases they will be dramatic .. and they my even be very important dramatic changes for the portal system ... from what I gather from that referred statement in that case the portal team would be screwed?

anyways all I was trying to do is point out where this cooperation would have problems .. and that all people that join the phpPP project should be aware of such potential issues


... damn its hard to shut up ;)

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Post by Kanuck » Mon Nov 19, 2001 6:49 pm

Here's an idea... let's insert the word PSO apparently forgot to type, and then italicize the main point in the sentence:
psoTFX wrote: If the portal requires something be done a certain way, and the changes enabling this don't negatively effect phpBB (or better yet, help improve phpBB) then the phpBB team will obviously consider making such changes.

Poof! Suddenly, it all becomes so clear!
Last edited by Kanuck on Mon Nov 19, 2001 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by psoTFX » Mon Nov 19, 2001 6:51 pm

Indeed, as per Kanuck ... I thought it was pretty obvious what I was implying.

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Post by Kanuck » Mon Nov 19, 2001 6:53 pm

Yeah, somebody just needed to proofread what he'd written :P
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Post by vandal » Mon Nov 19, 2001 7:05 pm

indeed .. the last couple days on this forum suddenly appear as such a waste of time :-)

(as long as any change is not a negative change .. as in minor API changes can be accepted)

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Post by psoTFX » Mon Nov 19, 2001 7:17 pm

Of course it's all my fault, knew it would be ;)

I'll say this (again), keep in mind I'm starting to get into a lockey lockey mood with this whole affair because it's boring saying the same thing again and again, so for one final time:

The portal, if brought under the phpBB Group umbrella will have to use phpBB as it's forum component (although an admin can disable it if they do not wish to have a forum component ... this is subject to approval by James, as are all my comments), no alternative forum should be able to be plugged in easily. The devs of phpBB 2.x will, wherever possible and where not detrimental to the 2.x codebase, it's plans, aims or progress listen to and if appropriate (and possible) take into account any changes requested or required by the portal devs. The phpBB 2.x devs will not compromise phpBB 2.x in any way or complicate it's installation, or require a portal be installed, etc.

Perhaps James would care to add or amend this?

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