Project leadership (split)

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Project leadership (split)

Post by scotshin7 » Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:21 am

psoTFX wrote: As for 'dev members', that's up to Bart (as Lead) and James (as Manager) ... Bart has already said that for now he thinks they've probably got enough people to 'get going' but more would be recruited as development gets started.

I know Bart has already said that, but it is a project founded by the community, not by Bart... if Bart founded the project he'll have all the rights but the community founded the project, so Bart does not have complete control over the project...

[edit:BartVB]This is a split from this topic:
http://phpbb.sourceforge.net/phpBB2/vie ... php?t=2617
[/edit]
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Post by psoTFX » Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:27 am

yawn, you started a poll on who should be Lead Developer, Bart won it clear, fair and square. Don't get all upity about it. There is no such thing as a successful 'community' project, every successful project has a 'leadership' who make decisions which filter down through various levels. You'll realise this in a few years ... :)

As for the modules, phpBB 2.0 will not be modularised. The portal can access various _functions_ in a similar way to 2.x, core common features can be accessed as separate pages (more than likely) supplied by 2.x. You're getting far too bogged down in the intricacies ... start @ the beginning ... ;)

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Post by scotshin7 » Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:31 am

OK, Bart won fair and square as the lead developer, but I didn't mean the lead developer as the DICTATOR of the project, I was just meaning the MANAGER(as in being the "official speaker" of this project)... e.g. he doesn't have the right to suddenly shut down the project or other things... but James would have the right to shut down phpBB because he is the FOUNDER of the project, and recurited members himself.
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Post by psoTFX » Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:34 am

Do you want a portal or not? Do you want that portal to continue to develop in a sustainable way? If the answers are "yes" then I'm telling you the only way to go is to have a team with clear 'management'. This very forum was an excellent example of what happens to a project when no clear leadership exists, duplicated topics, off-topic discussion, repetition and no clear path or progress. Where exactly has Bart said he's going to shut down the project btw?

My suggestion, stop moaning and complaining about "Bart's not the leader" and continue to help by contributing positively.

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Post by scotshin7 » Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:38 am

That's fine with me, I just don't want to get into trouble again ;)

Well, I hope that the portal is under "open development"... so we could contribute code, ideas, etc. especially at this stage...

psoTFX, remember reminding yourself that checking files at "2am bad, 2pm good"? I hope that you aren't checking files now because it's around 2:30 AM! :mrgreen:
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Post by psoTFX » Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:40 am

As with phpBB 2.0 ideas are I'm sure very very welcome for the portal (indeed Bart, Kanucka and Jay have made this very clear).

As for code, it's always 2am for me ...

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Post by scotshin7 » Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:45 am

Would you please fulfill my wish of setting that you will not be hidden on the "who's online" list? :mrgreen:
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Post by psoTFX » Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:50 am

But then you'd see me and you'd lose that sense of intrigue and wonder of "Is Paul here?" ;)

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Post by scotshin7 » Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:57 am

No, I just know that you are here when you reply very quickly ;)

Hmm, Paul currently seems to be gone, probably getting some sleep :) It's around 3:00 AM there anyway...
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Post by BartVB » Sat Dec 01, 2001 10:02 am

Ok, a few things to set this straight.
  • The development team is kind of closed at the moment. We need to make decisions about how the Portal will look and how we are going to make the core. In such a stage it's awful to have a large development team. It takes ages before something gets decided.
  • When we start coding we'll need more manpower (probably) if that's the case the team will grow. Big advantage of waiting with choosing those additional members is that in the next few days/weeks we'll get a pretty clear picture in this very forum of the capabilities and motivation of the community members. Everyone can say that they made this and that and that they would LOVE to join the team.. But it extremely sucks when you start assigning tasks and you'll have to discover that they suck or that they just don't have the required motivation... IMO waiting a bit and seeing what we've got is a good way to prevent (or minimize) this..
  • I'm no dicator :D (just don't ask my GF that ;))... At times it's important that someone decides something because otherwise the project gets delayed for ages because concensus can't be reached.. But I'll always first try to go for concensus, it's much better for the project IMO...
  • We extremely welcome input from the Portal forum! More input is better! Only reason that there is a separate forum for the devs is that we can try to keep things a bit more structured and ontopic there. But we'd love to get comments on what gets discussed there.. IMO a lot (if not most) of the development work will be done here, at least the conceptual things. With that information we can try to structure all the bits and pieces in the dev forum.
  • My exams are over! First some serious partying this weekend but then my life will be phpBB2 and the Portal for a large part (I hope ;)).
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Post by scotshin7 » Sat Dec 01, 2001 7:04 pm

BartVB wrote:
  • The development team is kind of closed at the moment. We need to make decisions about how the Portal will look and how we are going to make the core. In such a stage it's awful to have a large development team. It takes ages before something gets decided.

OK, as long as you consider our input very valuable...
BartVB wrote:
  • When we start coding we'll need more manpower (probably) if that's the case the team will grow. Big advantage of waiting with choosing those additional members is that in the next few days/weeks we'll get a pretty clear picture in this very forum of the capabilities and motivation of the community members. Everyone can say that they made this and that and that they would LOVE to join the team.. But it extremely sucks when you start assigning tasks and you'll have to discover that they suck or that they just don't have the required motivation... IMO waiting a bit and seeing what we've got is a good way to prevent (or minimize) this..

I understand that...
BartVB wrote:
  • I'm no dicator :D (just don't ask my GF that ;))... At times it's important that someone decides something because otherwise the project gets delayed for ages because concensus can't be reached.. But I'll always first try to go for concensus, it's much better for the project IMO...

I wasn't saying that you were a dictator, I was just saying that the project leader should NOT be a dictator... but you shouldn't just make your own decisions ;)
BartVB wrote:
  • We extremely welcome input from the Portal forum! More input is better! Only reason that there is a separate forum for the devs is that we can try to keep things a bit more structured and ontopic there. But we'd love to get comments on what gets discussed there.. IMO a lot (if not most) of the development work will be done here, at least the conceptual things. With that information we can try to structure all the bits and pieces in the dev forum.

Thank you, but like I said, I hope that you consider the community's input valuable...
BartVB wrote:
  • My exams are over! First some serious partying this weekend but then my life will be phpBB2 and the Portal for a large part (I hope ;)).

That's good... :)
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Post by Jay » Sat Dec 01, 2001 7:09 pm

scotshin7 wrote: OK, as long as you consider our input very valuable...

I for one would say that the commnuity's input is the most valuable part of this project.. just my .02 :D

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Post by Kanuck » Sat Dec 01, 2001 7:46 pm

And as the third dev, I totally agree, the community's input is very valuable - but ultimately, decisions are up to BartVB. It's not a dictatorship, but it's not a democracy either... I know that won't be a popular viewpoint, but that's the way it is with any project, even phpBB. Even if a decision is unpopular with the community, if we (the developers) feel it's ultimately for the good of the project, then we'll make that unpopular decision.

We definitely hear what everybody's saying about wanting to have input, and trust me, you will all have TONS of input on this project... but everybody also has to realize, we are developing this project, and we've already been getting some pretty good ideas of how we're going to develop the project. Your input influences us hugely, but since Bart's the lead developer, all decisions are ultimately up to him (and Jay and I), so don't forget it ;)
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Post by scotshin7 » Sat Dec 01, 2001 9:01 pm

As long as there's a good reason(especially with very major things) why you did it this way ;)
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Post by psoTFX » Sat Dec 01, 2001 9:49 pm

It's called project management ... and with that this discussion is closed ;) Yep, the big bad Paul again :D

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