It should be standard.

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LarryMiller
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It should be standard.

Post by LarryMiller »

The following needs to be standard when installing or upgrading phpBB!

The attachment mod should be included in the standard install and/or upgrade.

Remote avatar file size and dimension control should be in the standard install/upgrade.

Remote image attachment file size and dimension control should be in the standard install/upgrade.

Short URLs (truncated display) should be in the standard install/upgrade.

SPAM filters/guards should be in the standard install/upgrade.

Perhaps this would prevent a lot of us from being in "MOD HELL" when trying to add more features.

It appears that MODS are approved and accepted, but rarely incorporated into the final product.

Am I missing anything?
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Post by Zarath »

I think most of those are already in the new version...

But saying they should be standard because -you- want them is pretty stupid. A lot of people don't use the attachments mod, nor do they want it. Infact, I'd say about 5% of the forums I've seen that use phpBB even use the mod, maybe less.
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Re: It should be standard.

Post by drathbun »

LarryMiller wrote: It appears that MODS are approved and accepted, but rarely incorporated into the final product.

That is the policy of the phpBB Group. No MODS - not even the attachment MOD which was written by the current lead developer - are ever incorporated into the core product.
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LarryMiller
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Post by LarryMiller »

Zarath wrote: But saying they should be standard because -you- want them is pretty stupid. A lot of people don't use the attachments mod, nor do they want it. Infact, I'd say about 5% of the forums I've seen that use phpBB even use the mod, maybe less.


The reason I say this is because some boards already include some of these features whether they are used or not.

It just seems to be a logical upgrade path to include what has been approved.

That way, we are all on the same page.

BTW, printer friendly page versions should be included in the list.
LarryMiller
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Re: It should be standard.

Post by LarryMiller »

drathbun wrote:
LarryMiller wrote:It appears that MODS are approved and accepted, but rarely incorporated into the final product.

That is the policy of the phpBB Group. No MODS - not even the attachment MOD which was written by the current lead developer - are ever incorporated into the core product.


Maybe this is a bad policy.
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drathbun
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Re: It should be standard.

Post by drathbun »

LarryMiller wrote: Maybe this is a bad policy.

Your opinion is noted. :-)

You are not the first to raise this issue, nor will you be the last. It is currently the policy, and has been for the four years that I have been using the software. It may change tomorrow, but I doubt it. :-)
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LarryMiller
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Post by LarryMiller »

I think phpBB is a great program and would like to see it as the best solution but, as a programmer, the upgrade path is very disappointing.

Sorry
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Re: It should be standard.

Post by ckwalsh »

LarryMiller wrote: The following needs to be standard when installing or upgrading phpBB!

I wouldn't say Needs, but maybe in your opinion should be. As I'll explain I have to disagree with lots of your ideas.
LarryMiller wrote: The attachment mod should be included in the standard install and/or upgrade.

As something already included in the install? I totally agree it would be nice.Forcing people when upgrading to add attachments? Not so Nice. You would just get people who wouldn't upgrade because of so many code changes. However, I don't mind that it will be standard in phpBB3, as it doesn't require as muchy work.
LarryMiller wrote: Remote avatar file size and dimension control should be in the standard install/upgrade.

I believe there are controls on filesize already in place (I don't use the avatar upload so I'm not sure). Dimentions I think are easy to control though, just delete the person's avatar and PM them to have them choose another. No need for a MOD in my opinion.
LarryMiller wrote: Remote image attachment file size and dimension control should be in the standard install/upgrade.

Again with the attachment MOD. See above.
LarryMiller wrote: Short URLs (truncated display) should be in the standard install/upgrade.

Shortened URL's and SEO take htaccess files I believe. Not everyone uses an apache server, so just for the sake of compatability I don't think that would work.
LarryMiller wrote: SPAM filters/guards should be in the standard install/upgrade.

If they are made standard, then all bots will be developed to break them. If you have a unique enough system for spam (meaning not standard, custom coding or MODs) then you should have no problem.
LarryMiller wrote: Perhaps this would prevent a lot of us from being in "MOD HELL" when trying to add more features.

As long as you keep track of which mods you have installed, I can't think of any reasons one would have trouble with mods. Having trouble finding code? Find which mod edits that file/line.
LarryMiller wrote: It appears that MODS are approved and accepted, but rarely incorporated into the final product.

That's why they are Modifications ;)
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Post by guspasho »

I have to come out and say I agree with the original poster. It is VERY disappointing that phpBB is refusing to incorporate so many features that lead many of us to duplicate the work of modding it in, many features that very definitely should be standard.

Modding my board because the features I need are not in the core product a huge time-waster for many of us, and on top of that, can predictably cause essential updates to fail. I am on the board right now because I am trying to deal with a failed update. I have been in mod hell. It is the reason I put off updating 2.0.17 to current until this last week. I am in mod hell now, dealing with the consequences of my mods when I finally tried to update.

Along with the features listed that should definitely be standard are:

* Making the avatar dimension and filesize restrictions work (these have never, ever worked for me.)
* Default new forum permissions of admin-only. When I make a new forum on my board I don't want to find out the hard way that guests can post there.
* Participation icons. So my users can tell by looking at the topic list which topics they have posted in.
* Topic merge. Moderators can split topics, why can't they merge them?
* An automatic mod installer that tests whether the install will fail before it installs. Other boards have this, why must I suffer through the never-out-of-beta EasyMOD?
* Maintenence tools, that can find and repair errors on their own, or check files against the current version.
* Recycle bin option so deleted posts and topics actually go somewhere in case an action needs to be reviewed later.
* Auditing moderator activity, and the ability to undo any moderator actions.
* Most important of all, REPORT THIS POST, FOR CHRISSAKES!!! This should absolutely, without a doubt, if you only add one feature this year, be the one! I have a thousand potential moderators on my board to alert a real moderator when a spammer posts pornography, I should not have to wait until a moderator feels like logging in on his regular schedule before it is removed when it could be removed immediately!

And, selecting a few of the simpler, more elegant solutions from the Humans and Bots thread:
* Anti-spammer measures such as:
- A simple human-checker, that allows the admin to create from the ACP a custom question and answer the user must provide to prove it is not a bot, and insta-IP-ban on fail.
- A check on how long it took to fill out the registration form (does this actually work in a way that prevents bots from spoofing the duration?) and insta-IP-ban on fail.
- ACP option to remove or alter fields from registration and insta-IP-ban any user who tries to enter data into those non-present fields.
- Something, anything similar to Akismet for Wordpress, so I don't have to be a victim to the same spammer that has victimized thousands of other users already!

The simple lack of features that come standard is the reason I am switching to Simplemachines.org. Updates may not come as quickly, but it at least has more standard features and a far easier modding system.
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Re: It should be standard.

Post by guspasho »

Brainy wrote: As long as you keep track of which mods you have installed, I can't think of any reasons one would have trouble with mods. Having trouble finding code? Find which mod edits that file/line.


Please, I would love to know how this can easily be done. I have tried keeping track of my mods, and I still have no idea.
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Post by Zarath »

LarryMiller wrote: I think phpBB is a great program and would like to see it as the best solution but, as a programmer, the upgrade path is very disappointing.

Sorry


If you are indeed a programmer you opinion should be much more objective. And you really should be having absolutely no trouble installing the required mods that you need. Realistically, with easy mod, it takes what... 2 minutes to install a mod. I don't see where the issue lies.

Don't force thousands (tens of thousands? hundreds of thousands?) of people to have to disable functions and features because a minority want to be lazy.
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Post by Ramon Fincken »

[spam - Techie-Micheal]
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Before changing a file, some code or installing a MOD >> Make a backup first!

Do you like my mods? paypal me $1 :) forumsoftware[AT}creativepulses[DOT}nl [/size]
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Post by drathbun »

Two things. This is no longer (and probably never was) a "MOD Requests" topic, and as such will be moved to phpBB Discussion.

Second, discussion is (of course) allowed. But the fact is that the phpBB Group has a policy, that policy has not changed, and I personally have no indication that it will change in the future. So feel free to voice your opinions backed up with whatever supporting arguments that you like. But the odds of anyone coming up with an argument that has not been presented in the past four years are probably slim. :-)

Here's my personal opinion, for what it's worth. I don't want all those extra features in my board. I selected phpBB precisely for what it is, a good solid core with a very active and enthusiastic MODder community. You (a generic "you" not anyone specific in this topic) want a calendar with birthdays and events, I think that's silly. I want the ability to attach files (with image thumbnails) the next person doesn't. They want sub-forums, someone else wants the ability to spend forum "cash" and spend it in a "shop", the person in line after them doesn't even want more than one forum and wants everything to be displayed on one page.

All of these people can get what they want from phpBB. Granted they have a bit of work to do, but it's doable.

I do not subscribe to a "pre-modded" philosophy. Why? Because it's not ... natural. :-) In the admittedly cursory review I have done of various pre-modded boards none of them have struck me as being a "better" phpbb than phpbb itself.

Keeping phpBB up to date is one challenge. Keeping phpBB up to date with 20, 30, 50... :shock: MODs installed is another.

Finally, it goes back to a matter of choice. When the author's of pre-modded boards make decisions to include / exclude certain MODs, they're not asking me. So once again there will be features that I do not want that are cluttering up the board, adding extra query overhead, and generally making things worse. I prefer to start with the phpbb core and build up with the features I want.

And by doing that, I can customize each board to each specific site. I have a number of phpBB boards installed, and not a single one of them is like any other. Each one has its own different custom features.

Yes, there are a few MODs that I apply to every board. (Hiding inactive members on the memberlist is one, for example.) Would it make my life easier if those MODs were included in the phpbb core? Sure, but would it make someone else's life more difficult? Possibly. :-)

As I started out saying, you can come out "for" or "against" the policy, and there's room for discussion, but I doubt that the policy will change.

As stated, moving to phpBB Discussion from MOD Requests.
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Post by espicom »

Adding features to add features means fewer hosts will support the software. Attachments requires certain things be available, which might not be present. And many sites have no use for attachments.
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Re: It should be standard.

Post by ckwalsh »

guspasho wrote:
Brainy wrote:As long as you keep track of which mods you have installed, I can't think of any reasons one would have trouble with mods. Having trouble finding code? Find which mod edits that file/line.


Please, I would love to know how this can easily be done. I have tried keeping track of my mods, and I still have no idea.


Whenever I modify a file, I make a comment at the beginning that says the date and the Mod (plus version)
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