Why submit your MODs to the MOD Database?

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Brf
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Post by Brf » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:22 pm

Yeah. My Virtual Casino mod has been in the queue since Oct-1. I cant wait to see what little typoes need to be fixed before I can resubmit it with the bugfixes I have done since then :roll:

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Post by ycl6 » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:11 am

Josh Yelon wrote: Use checked="checked"!?!?!?

On the mod submission form, there's a little check-box that says, allow the mod team to fix trivial mistakes (Yes/No). I can't believe they wouldn't just fix that themselves. It's got to take longer to send the mod back for a rewrite, than it does to type the string '="checked"'.

PeteMan's MOD has many more problems other than that simple XHTML issue. :wink:

~Mac

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Post by ycl6 » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:12 am

Brf wrote: I cant wait to see what little typoes need to be fixed before I can resubmit it with the bugfixes I have done since then :roll:

Why not submit the version with the bugfix then?

~Mac

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Time.....

Post by cbrain » Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:10 pm

How long does it take for a MOD to be released?

Thanks,

cbrain

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Brf
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Post by Brf » Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:17 pm

ycl6 wrote:
Brf wrote:I cant wait to see what little typoes need to be fixed before I can resubmit it with the bugfixes I have done since then :roll:

Why not submit the version with the bugfix then?

~Mac


What? I have been waiting since Oct-1 with this version... If I submit another version, I will have to wait another 4-weeks before seeing whatever you plan on rejecting it for. I might as well wait for you to reject it first. Then I can resubmit it with bug-fixes and whatever else you want and not have to wait an additional 4-weeks on top.

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Post by Ptirhiik » Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:54 pm

> Brf: you see it wrongly: as soon as MOD team member will find the bugs you are already aware of, he will drop the validation and you will be back in the same loop than a standard validation. However, the MOD team member will have lost his time on attempting to validate a mod with known bugs, although he could have taken another mod and so empty the list a little more, allowing your validation to come quicker.

So, letting your mod you know having bugs in the queue:
- doesn't make a resubmission come sooner than a first submission,
- slow down the whole queue, including your resubmission, but also all the other mod,

and the last but not least:
- is basicaly a lack of respect for the MOD team member who dedicates his time to this task.


When you have a mod in the queue you are aware of bugs, drop a pm to a MOD team member in order to remove it.

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Post by Josh Yelon » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:45 pm

The four-week turnaround really is a problem.

Some developers, like me, write a mod and it's done. We then move on to other projects. If somebody sends me a validation report in a month, it will be too late. I have no idea where I'll be in a month, and the code will no longer be fresh in my mind. I won't be interested in trying to pick up the project again.

Other developers who write mods continue to work on them. If they submit today, then in four weeks, they'll get a report that validates the code as it was a month ago... which now looks nothing like the current version of the code.

I'm not saying I have the solution, but this isn't working.

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Post by Kellanved » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:49 pm

The MOD team is at the moment understaffed, there's not much use in lamenting that.

Especially complicated MODs (MODs based on other MODs, not using clear variable names/following the coding standard or with a four-digit+ line count) can take a lot longer than they should.

We're working on it.
Last edited by Kellanved on Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nocando is in Idontwanna county. No support via PM

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Post by Josh Yelon » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:55 pm

Ok, well, since we're on the same page, here are some suggestions then.

1. Have an "express lane" for mods that are just a couple dozen lines of code.

2. Allow people to update their submissions, without losing their place in the queue.

3. Allow your users to see not-yet-validated mods, and submit bug reports: in other words, let them do the debugging for you.

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Post by TerraFrost » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:35 pm

Some developers, like me, write a mod and it's done. We then move on to other projects. If somebody sends me a validation report in a month, it will be too late. I have no idea where I'll be in a month, and the code will no longer be fresh in my mind. I won't be interested in trying to pick up the project again.

Say the MOD was accepted immediatly and that two months down the line, someone has a problem with it. Are you going to tell them "Sorry - I'm not interested in trying to pick up the project again", too?

In my opinion, you ought not presume to have a product that's ready for public consumption unless you're also willing to accept a certain level of responsibility to those who might use it.

With regard to your suggestions... unfortunately, I don't see the queue dramatically changing, any time soon, since whomever would make the changes would have to stop validating for a little while, meaning that we'd be falling even farther behind.

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Post by Brf » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:58 pm

I saw the request by wGEric for new staffers to verify Mods, and I was ready to signup and throw in some time..... and then I saw the requirement that the new staffer had to have a verified Mod in the database already.

Why is it taking 4 weeks to reject my Mod?

I learned just a few days ago, from Drathbun, that this team prefers control braces on lines by themselves, which I have not been doing. That is something I could have been told weeks ago and corrected.

Now I will, submit a new version. Then wait until December before I am told to fix some little one-liner that I could have fixed back in September had I known of it.

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Post by webmacster87 » Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:26 am

*comes out of his hole*

brf: It's not a perfect world. The MOD Team is trying to keep things fair for all the MOD authors. A large queue happens sometimes, other times it's small. While 4 weeks does tend to be a bit excessive, it does happen sometimes, because everyone is a volunteer and does have a personal life to contend with.

First of all, there is no way to tell the size of a MOD by its cover. The team has no way to tell how many lines a MOD is until they've already downloaded it. Furthermore, if small MODs were given priority, then the large MODs would never be tackled, because there are many more small MODs in the queue than there are large MODs. The large ones take long enough already!

Next up, if you write a MOD and then don't care about it, then you shouldn't submit. The reason for the MOD Database is to provide a collection of MODs that are safe, secure, and coded to phpBB standards (hence the MOD Team's job), and to provide a place for users to receive support and devs to provide support (that's your job). If you do not offer support to the users, then you've basically abandoned the MOD. I wish I could serve as an example, unfortunately, I've had to abandon my MODs and quit authoring them because I don't have enough time anymore to offer support.

With regards to having to fix and resubmit little errors, well, the MOD team puts the documentation out there and does everything possible to point to it (note this topic). They cannot be responsible if the author didn't find out about it. To make an analogy, suppose you're driving, you decide to change lanes, and you run into a car in the other lane as you're changing because you didn't see them. You're still liable for the accident.
Josh Yelon wrote: 2. Allow people to update their submissions, without losing their place in the queue.

This can cause a lot of heartaches for the MOD Team. If an author updated their MOD after it had been validated, then the MOD Team would have to start over and revalidate it. If this continues and continues until the MOD is perfect, then that MOD has been validated a few times, and the MODs below it haven't been touched yet. This is not a good scenario.
Josh Yelon wrote: 3. Allow your users to see not-yet-validated mods, and submit bug reports: in other words, let them do the debugging for you.

Post your MOD in the MODs in Development forum as a release candidate for a week or two, that will give you about the same effect.

Being in the MOD Database is a privilege, and it does require the authors to put some effort and cooperation in it, and be understanding of the fact that the MOD team at any one time has many many MODs to sort through. Most authors will only have one to worry about at any given time. If you want your MOD to spend less time in the queue, take more time to check over your code. Read through the tons of documentation on the forums (see the topic I linked to above), run it through the validators, install your MOD with EasyMOD, test your MOD on a live board under as many scenarios as you can think of, and put it out to the public as a release candidate. This will catch most of the issues in your MOD before you submit, meaning that the MOD Team won't have to catch these issues and can get your MOD out of the queue quicker and public. Then the queue will get smaller quicker, and then the turnaround times will decrease for all the other MOD authors. Everybody wins.

As a sidenote, I am not a current MOD Team member, only a former one. Anything I wrote here is only my own opinion and does not reflect the opinions of any team member, as far as I know.

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Post by Brf » Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:36 am

Fountain of Apples wrote: *comes out of his hole*

brf: It's not a perfect world. The MOD Team is trying to keep things fair for all the MOD authors. A large queue happens sometimes, other times it's small. While 4 weeks does tend to be a bit excessive, it does happen sometimes, because everyone is a volunteer and does have a personal life to contend with.

First of all, there is no way to tell the size of a MOD by its cover. The team has no way to tell how many lines a MOD is until they've already downloaded it. Furthermore, if small MODs were given priority, then the large MODs would never be tackled, because there are many more small MODs in the queue than there are large MODs. The large ones take long enough already!


I am sorry, but while I have been waiting these four weeks, I have seen several Mods submitted and then approved within days. It seems that some authors are given the fast-lane, while others -- like me -- are kept on hold.

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Post by webmacster87 » Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:41 am

Brf wrote:
Fountain of Apples wrote:*comes out of his hole*

brf: It's not a perfect world. The MOD Team is trying to keep things fair for all the MOD authors. A large queue happens sometimes, other times it's small. While 4 weeks does tend to be a bit excessive, it does happen sometimes, because everyone is a volunteer and does have a personal life to contend with.

First of all, there is no way to tell the size of a MOD by its cover. The team has no way to tell how many lines a MOD is until they've already downloaded it. Furthermore, if small MODs were given priority, then the large MODs would never be tackled, because there are many more small MODs in the queue than there are large MODs. The large ones take long enough already!


I am sorry, but while I have been waiting these four weeks, I have seen several Mods submitted and then approved within days. It seems that some authors are given the fast-lane, while others -- like me -- are kept on hold.

Again, I can't speak about what's currently going on in the team (because I don't know anything anymore), however it might be that they had some serious security issue that happened. I recently had a possible exploit discovered in one of my MODs (actually it was an exploit in an external script which I included in one of my MODs), so it got an expedited validation because of that.

But again, I'm not on the MOD Team anymore, so I don't know what's going on.

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Post by Brf » Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:50 am

No. I am talking about little add-ons, not security Mods. Simple little pretty-tweaks.

What determines what order the mods are validated? Are they all posted on some mod-board somewhere where your validaters pick and choose as they wish? It is your site and your software, so I dont presume to judge your practices... but it is pretty discouraging to sit and wait like this.

I have a life, so I could go somewhere else.... but programming like this is what I love, and what I have devoted almost 30 years of my life. That is why I spend so much time here.

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