WYSIWYG editor

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Master_Cylinder
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Re: WYSIWYG editor

Post by Master_Cylinder » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:07 pm

brunoais wrote:Those are... 4 ppl asking for it...

At first, the first push, I won't.
Then I'll work on adding should the devs accept it.
More than 1/3 of the people voted against this... :roll:

Jessica wrote:I believe the users should be able to choose. Maybe there should be an admin option on whether to allow users to choose or whether they're forced to use one or the other?
Exactly. If the admin allows both THEN they have a choice. I shouldn't have to dig in the code or use an extension to turn it off.

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Re: WYSIWYG editor

Post by brunoais » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:22 pm

Master_Cylinder wrote:
brunoais wrote:Those are... 4 ppl asking for it...

At first, the first push, I won't.
Then I'll work on adding should the devs accept it.
More than 1/3 of the people voted against this... :roll:
I can't guarantee this but I think it's because they think it's about an RTE using CKE or TinyMCE and not a real WYSIWYG (at least, in intention).
Master_Cylinder wrote:
Jessica wrote:I believe the users should be able to choose. Maybe there should be an admin option on whether to allow users to choose or whether they're forced to use one or the other?
Exactly. If the admin allows both THEN they have a choice. I shouldn't have to dig in the code or use an extension to turn it off.
Hum... I'll stick to what I mentioned... I'll add such option after the first PR check, then (unless the devs are against it).

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Re: WYSIWYG editor

Post by Master_Cylinder » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:25 pm

Regardless, many don't want wysiwyg and the option to turn it off is so basic that there has to be a motive not to include it. The "so good it doesn't need to be turned off" idea is just vanity because you're working on it so you think it's acceptable to force it on those that don't want it and that we'll somehow agree later. Some might just give up because they think it's not worth the trouble but it's still wrong.

I know we can't make you add the option but I won't run it on my boards.

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Re: WYSIWYG editor

Post by D@ve » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:19 pm

I have no problem with an off-switch. I just don't think its neccessary...
that there has to be a motive not to include it.
IF there is a motiv... I'd like to know.

Sometimes (especially when I read the reactions of the new feature suggestions) I have the feeling that phpBB Admins are a little antiquated and old fashioned and don't want anything new at all... (You can't teach an old dog new tricks)

I definitley hate(!!) WYSWIG editors for forums and if I have a choice I'll never use them. but I can't project my needs on others and I think phpBB has to keep in touch with modern developments.

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Re: WYSIWYG editor

Post by Ozo » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:33 pm

It's fine if people do not like WYSWIG I just don't see how having five to 20 custom bbocde buttons bloating the posting page can be much better. not saying WYSWIG wont have em either, but It can surley make things easier in general. I'd sitll +1 for a choice for those who don't want it.

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Re: WYSIWYG editor

Post by Master_Cylinder » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:03 pm

I see them as superfluous fluff, completely unneeded except for the lowest of intellects or the rarest of forums. My forums don't need 20 custom bbcodes either, most don't need any custom ones. I don't see them as "modern developments" either, they've been around for a couple of decades, just not in places they're not needed,like forums. A word processor having one makes sense, phpBB, not so much.

Funny how *almost* nobody is against a switch to turn it off but we still have to fight to get one. An extension to add wysiwyg makes more sense than an extension to remove wysiwyg. :roll:

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Re: WYSIWYG editor

Post by D@ve » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:14 pm

except for the lowest of intellects
Its 2014 and not 1995 any more...
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Re: WYSIWYG editor

Post by Master_Cylinder » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:51 pm

D@ve wrote:
except for the lowest of intellects
Its 2014 and not 1995 any more...
If they NEED wysiwyg because can't figure out bbcode, they might have an IQ lower than Forrest Gump... :D

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Re: WYSIWYG editor

Post by D@ve » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:07 pm

People prefer a WYSWIG editor over a native text editor for the same reason they write their letters in Word and not in LaTeX...

Its not a matter of IQ its a matter of usability and comfort. Not every forum user is a tech geek, like most of us...
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Re: WYSIWYG editor

Post by brunoais » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:13 pm

Just FYI, I've been using SCE here, in area51 and in p@p (a forum in which I'm a moderator that is now running on IP.B) for more than a year (about 2, for p@p). It actually started because I HATED CKE that IP.B uses due to some veeeery annoying details.

I'm quite used to it already and I had to manually setup different BBCode for different boards. P@p was actually the hardest one. After making for p@p, I just copied and pasted the list BBCode and the rest was already ready to use and working, so that was easy.
Right now, I'm writing this using SCE ;).

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Re: WYSIWYG editor

Post by Master_Cylinder » Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:30 pm

D@ve wrote:People prefer a WYSWIG editor over a native text editor for the same reason they write their letters in Word and not in LaTeX...

Its not a matter of IQ its a matter of usability and comfort. Not every forum user is a tech geek, like most of us...
SOME people prefer wysiwyg, some get it forced down their throat. Writing forum posts and writing complex formatted documents are not the same. While some people DO write complex formatted posts, it's generally not needed in forums.

I disagree, if they *can't* figure out how to use bbcode to format then they might have issues. Preference or not. I've lived without wysiwyg and formatted posts.
brunoais wrote:I'm quite used to it already and I had to manually setup different BBCode for different boards. P@p was actually the hardest one. After making for p@p, I just copied and pasted the list BBCode and the rest was already ready to use and working, so that was easy.
Right now, I'm writing this using SCE ;).
Some of us don't want to get used to it and we shouldn't have to. That's the point.

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Re: WYSIWYG editor

Post by Volksdevil » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:58 pm

How many of the posts within this very thread have required the use of anything other than 'Bold' or 'Colour' formatting? None? And when they did, it was all very easy to use.

Facebook and Twitter work perfectly fine just allowing people to type without over complicating things, I don't see why we need it over complicating on forums either, this very thread proves that point. It's just not needed by the majority.
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Re: WYSIWYG editor

Post by Master_Cylinder » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:27 pm

Volksdevil wrote:How many of the posts within this very thread have required the use of anything other than 'Bold' or 'Colour' formatting? None? And when they did, it was all very easy to use.

Facebook and Twitter work perfectly fine just allowing people to type without over complicating things, I don't see why we need it over complicating on forums either, this very thread proves that point. It's just not needed by the majority.
Amen...

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Re: WYSIWYG editor

Post by peopleopinion » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:46 am

D@ve wrote:Imo USERS should be able to switch between editors... Not (neccessarily) the admin.

regards, DAve
I Agree. I don't want to obligate my forum users to use one or the other: so I hope will be present such switch that allows users to choose what they want to use. Everyone has to find his own preferred way.

I'm thinking at the medium user that uses my forum. It cannot use phpbb codes because it is habituated for example to open office or libre office or ms word toolbar and related work stream. So using phpbb codes is, for them a waste of time because they prefer formatting text in the way mentioned editors do, because they effectively are more simple for simple people.
Sometimes an admin if wants to built and administrate a success forum have to match the users needs.
If the forum is appreciated is frequented if not nobody or less people go there and this a bad thing.
Last edited by peopleopinion on Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WYSIWYG editor

Post by Master_Cylinder » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:50 am

peopleopinion wrote:
D@ve wrote:Imo USERS should be able to switch between editors... Not (neccessarily) the admin.

regards, DAve
I Agree. I don't want to obligate my forum users to use one or the other: so I hope will be present such switch that allows users to choose what they want to use. Everyone has to find his own preferred way.
As long as there's an admin switch to turn it off for those that don't think like you. Dave wasn't against an option to turn it off but you forgot to quote that one:
D@ve wrote:I have no problem with an off-switch. I just don't think its neccessary...

I definitley hate(!!) WYSWIG editors for forums and if I have a choice I'll never use them.

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