Full multi language pack support

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Martin Truckenbrodt
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Full multi language pack support

Post by Martin Truckenbrodt » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:12 pm

Hello,
Olympus just supports the installation fo several language packs.
Following features are needed to complete multi language pack support:
  • browser language detection
  • language inheritance
  • language flag bar
  • language dropdown box
Add a session_lang column to SESSION_TABLE and you will get a good solution. Then you will have no need to POST $lang or something like this from every page.

Maybe there is a good solution to translate the content, too?

Bye Martin

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Crizzo
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Re: Full multi language pack support

Post by Crizzo » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:23 pm

Ideas Bot wrote:browser language detection
Could lead to the wrong language, if somebody uses english software but is a native speaker in russian, spanish or something.
Ideas Bot wrote:language inheritance
What do you mean?
Ideas Bot wrote:language flag bar
Could cause some missunderstandings. Because the content won't change, too. But that is, how these bars are usually workings on websites.
Ideas Bot wrote: Maybe there is a good solution to translate the content, too?
That is the big problem. There is no software who can really translate the content into right good sentences of an other language. Not yet. So this would be horrible, if you use google translater + auto-detect to change the board language, the content and then the user reads this and thinks this people are not able to speak a meaningful and correct sentence.
Ideas Bot wrote:language dropdown box
A quick-language-change option? For usual users only change their board-language once or never. So why should i be able to switch it fast?

For common board the language of the content is similar to the board language. Most people who visit the board, will be able to read at least this one, to change the language.

Additionally you have to put many language packs in the core-phpbb, but how many? 10, 20? Then the translation could not be done decentral, like now. I think.
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Re: Full multi language pack support

Post by brunoais » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:26 pm

Crizzo wrote:
Ideas Bot wrote:browser language detection
Could lead to the wrong language, if somebody uses english software but is a native speaker in russian, spanish or something.
It's not our fault. If the headers say that the user wants the web page in english, why would he get a different page? If he wants in russian, then he should manually change to russian. If you want the web pages with a preference in specific languages, it should be specified like that in the "content-language" header.
For example, I have my browser's set as:

Code: Select all

en-gb,en-us;q=0.9,en;q=0.7,pt-pt;q=0.6,pt-br;q=0.4
So I expect that the page where I get to always serves me with the english page unless I explicitly state otherwise afterwards or it already knows that I prefer a different language or it does not have such language. I can say that > 90% of the times, just about any website out there, that's definitely not what happens.
Crizzo wrote:
Ideas Bot wrote:language inheritance
What do you mean?
Stuff like:
pt-br < pt-pt
Or
en-us < en-gb
If I understood right.
The concept is like style inheritance if there's no specific value for the language chosen, use one of the language that is above that in the "tree". If the user is viewing the website in pt-br (brazilian portuguese), and if a word does not exist in the laguage pack of pt-br, then it would use the one in pt-pt, which is a nice fallback, specially because most words are written the same way in both.
Ideas Bot wrote: Maybe there is a good solution to translate the content, too?
Want to translate? Use google translator or anything similar. If the forum owner wants that, get an extension to do it for him. That's what I think.
Ideas Bot wrote:language dropdown box
If we solve the one I pointed out in the first idea this is not needed any more and a different thing can be used instead.

As I have a mixed yes/no opinion on those, I'm unable to properly vote.

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Re: Full multi language pack support

Post by Martin Truckenbrodt » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:04 pm

Hello,
browser language:
Every modern browser has a feature to set the browser language for the user different to the system language.
A lot of website are using browser language to make it comfortable for the user. By Default phpBB should do it, too.

language inheritance:
This means to get missing language variables for MODs and outdated language packs from board default language or an other defined language pack - e.g. British English.

E.g. you can use a search engine to get phpBB3 Olympus MODs which are offering this features at the moment to get more Information about the features. ;) :)

Bye Martin
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Re: Full multi language pack support

Post by Oyabun1 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:48 pm

This should be split into 4 separate ideas, since none of them seem to be dependent on the others.
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Re: Full multi language pack support

Post by AmigoJack » Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:22 pm

Martin Truckenbrodt wrote:language flag bar
Why you should not use a flag as a symbol of language. I'm quite curious which (nation) flag you'd choose for Afrikaans.
Crizzo wrote:Most people who visit the board, will be able to read at least this one, to change the language
If they're a member, yes. But if they're guests reading the board because of a search engine result they will often change the board language, because they just visit many different boards.
brunoais wrote:If the headers say that the user wants the web page in english, why would he get a different page?
Because the software (internet browser) user might not be the owner (no permission to change settings). Think of internet cafés or office desktops.
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Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:51 am
The problem is probably not my English but you do not want to understand correctly.
...
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Re: Full multi language pack support

Post by Martin Truckenbrodt » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:48 am

Hello AmigoJack,
a feature discussion make no sense if you are looking every single case where the feature makes no sense or will not work perfectly. ;)

I'm sure that a lot of people would be happy with a full multi language pack support.

BTW: For Afrikaans you can use the flag of RSA. If you use flags then there are no alternatives to the country flags. But IMO a dropdown menue box would be enough. Maybe just the flags thing should be added by a MOD???

It's a point of discussion here, not a point of declaration. ;)

Bye Martin
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Re: Full multi language pack support

Post by AmigoJack » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:29 am

Martin Truckenbrodt wrote:It's a point of discussion here, not a point of declaration
Those who'll render this feature should also know disadvantages, flaws, pitfalls and exceptions, so I list them to make sure nobody forgets or naivly ignores them.
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Affin wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:51 am
The problem is probably not my English but you do not want to understand correctly.
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Re: Full multi language pack support

Post by Martin Truckenbrodt » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:43 am

Hello AmigoJack,
every feature has pros an cons.

In my experience phpBB community likes to talk about cons more than to talk about the pros. But maybe that's just my experience.

Bye Martin
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Re: Full multi language pack support

Post by GunChleoc » Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:21 am

I am all for multilanguage, but I am strictly against forcing the browser language on the user. Detecting the browser preferred languages is fine to do a preselection and desirable, but the user absolutely has to have an option of changing the language to something else.

I have the language selection mod installed which adds a drop-down to the header with the list of installed languages, and it also works for non-registered users. I think it works quite nicely :)

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Re: Full multi language pack support

Post by Martin Truckenbrodt » Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:34 am

Hello GunChleoc,
I'm quite sure that nobody talks about removing the user language profile setting.

You're right: Browser language detection makes sense for guests only.

Bye MArtin
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Re: Full multi language pack support

Post by GunChleoc » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:16 am

Well, the mod I'm using also allows guests to choose their language and doesn't force the browser language on them. Why would you have to sign up just so you can choose your language ;)

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Re: Full multi language pack support

Post by Martin Truckenbrodt » Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:53 pm

GunChleoc wrote:Well, the mod I'm using also allows guests to choose their language and doesn't force the browser language on them. Why would you have to sign up just so you can choose your language ;)
Hello GunChleoc,
just have a look to the first post here.
You can combine browser language detection and language selection from dropdown menue or language flag bar. Advanced Multi Language Pack Support MOD is doing it this way.

Bye Martin
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Re: Full multi language pack support

Post by GunChleoc » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:48 am

Thanks for the info. I always tend to ram this point home as much as I can, because automatic detection is something I have to keep fighting everywhere I go, because I translate into a minority language ;)

I would also like to add that using flags can cause problems, because the relationship between languages and nations is not bijective. Having flags as an extra option for boards admins who know what they're doing would be fine though.

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Re: Full multi language pack support

Post by Master_Cylinder » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:16 am

Many boards only want to support one language, intentionally.

I'm -1 for this but as long as the admin can control it then it's not so bad.

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