Maximum numbers of post per day

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Ideas Bot
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Maximum numbers of post per day

Post by Ideas Bot » Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:36 pm

Add an option in ACP / POSTING / Post Settings with "Maximum number of posts per day" which will help fight spam bots.

Related projects but abandoner:
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Highgirl
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Re: Maximum numbers of post per day

Post by Highgirl » Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:38 pm

And also fight against very activ members :lol:

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Re: Maximum numbers of post per day

Post by warmweer » Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:53 pm

"Maximum number of posts per day" which will help fight spam bots.
Surely there are less stupid ways (I'm actively stopping myself from using more colourful language) to achieve that. (There are topics about stopping spammers).
I predict very few YES voters unless you can come up with a beter justification for that feature.
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Re: Maximum numbers of post per day

Post by KevC » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:02 pm

There are far easier and much more affective ways to stop spam. When was the last time you saw any on here for instance?

The whole point of a discussion board is to allow people to freely discuss something. Can you imagine the annoyance if you were mid-debate with someone and you got a message saying that's it for today, you'll have to come back in 12 hours before you can post again. Wave goodbye to your users.
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Re: Maximum numbers of post per day

Post by AmigoJack » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:23 am

Zurd wrote:posts per day
Based on which timezone? Hint: if it's the one of the user then he can bypass that by using a different one; if it's the one by the guest account then it mostly won't match that of all users.
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Re: Maximum numbers of post per day

Post by juliokr » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:05 am

In any way to limit maximum number of posts per day does not help at all to fight against spam bots. They would have the same number of posts per day as regular members !

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Re: Maximum numbers of post per day

Post by Zurd » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:52 pm

@Highgirl: no it will not fight against very active members because you could disable this feature or you could set it at like 500 max posts per day.

@warmweer: no it's not stupid, it's actually the same principle about blocking password brute-force attack (i.e. fail2ban for Linux or Login Lockdown for WordPress, etc.), on our forum, we have a limit of 1 post per minute but there's nothing stopping people to post 60 messages per hour all the time and don't try to ban their IP, they can just use another proxy and come back

@KevC: easier and more effective ways to stop this problem? Please, go ahead and explain. As for the "annoyance", there is none unless you configure it poorly, see above "@Highgirl" for more details

@AmigoJack: of course it will have to be the timezone of the server, that goes without saying, it just needs to be well-coded so there's no way to bypass it.

@juliokr: yes it would help, I have no idea how you can calculate that spam bots have the same number of posts per day than regular members but let's calculate together so you can understand the difference, a spam bot can post 1 message per minute (on a board where the post limit is 1 per minute) for 24 hours straight, thus equaling 1440 posts and a regular member can post, well, it depends on the user, but for sure less than 1440 because you see, humans sometimes sleep, eat and do other things

For active forum where there's a moderator all the time, you can catch them and delete/ban their account fast, but on our board where I'm the moderator, I can skip a few days without connecting and it could happen one day that I would come back and there would be 4000 spam messages.

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Re: Maximum numbers of post per day

Post by KevC » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:42 pm

Zurd wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:52 pm
@KevC: easier and more effective ways to stop this problem? Please, go ahead and explain. As for the "annoyance", there is none unless you configure it poorly, see above "@Highgirl" for more details
Q&A antispam (built in) with a question that you cannot search the answer for. One that requires some logic to solve. The bots can't do those.
If you get the (rare) human spammers, they can easily be caught by the newly registered users group meaning their posts do not get seen by the members and they can be deleted along with the spam account in one click. Easy.

Spambots very rarely post more than a handful of messages in one visit, by which time they will be caught and deleted by the mods.

You don't want to restrict active members from posting. They are the life blood of your forums. I can't think of anything worse than suddenly hitting a message saying you've posted enough for today thank you, come back in 23 hours. How about never.
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Re: Maximum numbers of post per day

Post by warmweer » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:44 pm

Zurd wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:52 pm
@warmweer: no it's not stupid, it's actually the same principle about blocking password brute-force attack (i.e. fail2ban for Linux or Login Lockdown for WordPress, etc.), on our forum, we have a limit of 1 post per minute but there's nothing stopping people to post 60 messages per hour all the time and don't try to ban their IP, they can just use another proxy and come back
There is a serious difference between the result of a brute force password attack which, if succesful, could be the end of your forum, and the result of a user posting messages constantly (something which can be solved with 1 click).

As mentioned before: a good Q&A keeps the bots away.
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Re: Maximum numbers of post per day

Post by Jodi-86 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:43 pm

With my forum i have a rule that a new members first 2 posts will need approval.

For registration i use the accounts activated by admin setting, and a basic rule where when they sign up, i email a code to their email address and then they have to reply to the email with the code i sent them. then i activate the account, seems effective for me, but obviously every forum is different.

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Re: Maximum numbers of post per day

Post by AmigoJack » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:07 am

Zurd wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:52 pm
it will not fight against very active members because you could disable this feature
It's nowhere said if your proposed feature is a global one or one per user/group. Maybe you decided that in your mind already, but then it still remains there.

Zurd wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:52 pm
there's nothing stopping people to post 60 messages per hour
This makes two highly questionable assumptions:
  1. the user/bot grasps the actual waiting time (instead of only vaguely pointing down when to post next), and
  2. the user/bot actually posts after the minimum of waiting time (instead of not wasting seconds to minutes until submitting the next post).
You will rarily to never encounter a human that will achieve 60 posts per hour. You will more likely encounter a bot trying to submit a post again and again every 3 seconds, unbound to which error message is presented. Why not examining such a behaviour?

Zurd wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:52 pm
(on a board where the post limit is 1 per minute) for 24 hours straight, thus equaling 1440 posts and a regular member can post, well, it depends on the user, but for sure less than 1440 because you see, humans sometimes sleep, eat and do other things
But humans are also capable to submit more posts per minute without abusing anything - think of support, where neither supportee nor supporter want to wait just to post what they want to communicate.

Zurd wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:52 pm
it could happen one day that I would come back and there would be 4000 spam messages
Then you're not using the moderation queue - unapproved posts aren't visible to the board. That's what moderation is about.

Jodi-86 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:43 pm
then they have to reply to the email
Similar to me. Bonus of this is: you see who's actually able to communicate thru the e-mail address and can sort out those never responding within 30 days.
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Re: Maximum numbers of post per day

Post by Zurd » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:50 pm

@KevC: We tried Q&A before, it doesn't work period. I guess you need to change the questions often which asks for more maintenance. Google reCAPTCHA is way more better and works just fine. Anyway, it's not even the problem, we are not talking about bots but humans that just register manually and then using a script to spam. Newly registered users group where their posts cannot be seen? I fail to understand how it's useful, a new member wants their post to be seen so it can be replied. Like I said before, it's not about restricting active members, they will never posts as much an an automatic script, no real user will ever see that message. See the calculation I posted to @juliokr,

@warmweer: Yes a brute force attack if succesful is very bad, yes it's worse than a user posting messages constantly. And yes there's solution to both of them.

@Jodi-86 That's a very good alternative with the first 2 posts that needs approval, the only problem like I said is that I don't log in daily, if a user post and I come back 5 days later, it's not nice to the user. An activation email code could work better in my case if I receive an email and I could just hit reply and send it to the user, I'll have to check that, it's just not as automatic as I'd like it to be, both for me and the new user.

@AmigoJack You just made a good point, the max # of posts per day could be done by groups or by user instead of being global, so newly registered users could be like maximum X posts a day (I'd personally set it at 3) and regular members would have a limit of 1000 or so, that would work so good. Yes, like you said, the automatic script is probably trying to post every 3 seconds and not waiting a full minute, if it's logged somewhere, I could make a script that will detect it and do an appropriate action, problem is that it is a shared hosting account, I think the apache logs are only visibile in cPanel and I would have to code something home-made. It could work though but lots of work, it would be better to be integrated in phpBB. No we're not using moderation queue, the forum is as much as automatic as I can without me doing anything and it works just fine as it is right now except for the rare multi-posts-spam, I don't really mind the occasional spammer who just post once and leave.

As for anyone thinking this is still a stupid idea, well... other forums have it!
https://xenforo.com/community/resources ... imit.1919/
https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=36887

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Re: Maximum numbers of post per day

Post by KevC » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:05 pm

Zurd wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:50 pm
@KevC: We tried Q&A before, it doesn't work period.
It does. You just have to choose the right kind of questions. Doesn't need any maintenance at all apart from when they beat your question you come up with another one. I make a change to mine about 3-4 times a year. That's low maintenance.
Zurd wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:50 pm
Newly registered users group where their posts cannot be seen? I fail to understand how it's useful, a new member wants their post to be seen so it can be replied.
Then you're not understanding how that group works. If you set it on, say, 1 post, when people register they only need one post to be approved and they can freely post on the board. Spammers will give themselves away in the first post they make. If they are legitimate users then they just have to wait for the post to be approved and that's it. They never seem to mind. Spammers that get past the registration (human spammers are still very rare) will have posts that will never be see by anyone except the mod team and can be deleted, along with the account in 1 click. Job done. That does not restrict active members at all.

You're unlikely to ever see the post totals you're calculating from spam. If you have an active board with active mods, the spammers are lucky to get 10 posts. I rarely ever see more than 2.
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Re: Maximum numbers of post per day

Post by warmweer » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:09 pm

Zurd wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:50 pm
As for anyone thinking this is still a stupid idea, well... other forums have it!
It's not because other forums have it that it automatically becomes a good idea.
Zurd wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:50 pm
so newly registered users could be like maximum X posts a day (I'd personally set it at 3) and regular members would have a limit of 1000 or so,
1000? and you mentioned that your spammer could be humans using a script to post continuously?
In my opinion, a user posting 50x a day is already a spammer ( err, unless they are member of the phpBB team 8-) )
A bug is a feature that hasn't made it to the manual (yet)

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