If "Quick Reply" textbox is visible, make "Post Reply" link act as "Submit" button

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AmigoJack
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If "Quick Reply" textbox is visible, make "Post Reply" link act as "Submit" button

Post by AmigoJack »

Based on the idea Delete "Post reply" button. it seems that if the "Quick Reply" feature is enabled there are people who tend to first fill it with text but then neither click the approprioate "Submit" or "Full Editor & Preview" buttons, but instead the generic "Post Reply" link. And then wonder why the text is gone.

Technically it must be trivial that, if the textarea for the Quick Reply is displayed, the "Post Reply" link is turned into a (HTML form) submit button that duplicates the already displayed "Submit" button.
  • It doesn't change the experience for those who disregarded the Quick Reply in the past already (submitting an empty textbox will load the editor anyway) but
  • at the same time helps those people who struggle to adapt (as then in no case the potential text is lost).
  • Should the "Quick Reply" feature not be in use then nothing changes anyway (the "Post Reply" link can stay a link).
Ideally the error message "Your message contains too few characters" is not displayed when loading the editor for the first time, which again should be trivial to solve.

An example of Quick Reply in action can be seen at any topic of the Area51 discussion board.


This idea is also an attempt to see how much it is wanted if being formulated precisely and using an approach that is not limited to the personal perspective. I previewed and re-read and redacted this text a few times until I was satisfied with its content and layout, which is ironically the opposite of a quick reply.
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Re: If "Quick Reply" textbox is visible, make "Post Reply" link act as "Submit" button

Post by EA117 »

One observation is that this has the same challenge as what I thought the intuitive action would be, which was to "change the Post Reply button into the same action as the Full Editor & Preview button", rather than "the same action as the Submit button."

This challenge being that both the "Submit" button and the "Full Editor & Preview" button are in a form fully encapsulated by the quickreply_editor.html template. To say that the existing "Post Reply" button will become an action for this form (at least if it's done with native HTML) means that the Quick Reply-specific form now needs to span templates, which doesn't seem like a great idea.

Anyone know if using Javascript to invoke submit of a form elsewhere on the page is considered appropriate design, or already used elsewhere in phpBB? That might make it trivial. I know I've done it in my own sites via Javascript before, but no idea if that's an accepted design or not.

I'm not sold on "the same action as the Submit button." That implies either we must check whether "the user has entered one or more characters into the Quick Reply area" in order to decide what the "Post Reply" button should do. Or, if we don't check that, it means "one of the normal ways phpBB users access the full editor" has now been shut off, because "Post Reply" now always tries to submit whatever has (or hasn't) been entered in the Quick Reply area. And we've exchanged one unexpected behavior for a different unexpected behavior.

Having the "Post Reply" button duplicate the "Full Editor & Preview" action instead "seems to preserve more of the behaviors"? e.g. If you did enter something into the Quick Reply area, but instead of Submit you hit Post Reply, you at least haven't lost any data, and you're taken to the same place you'll be taken to on any other board when you hit "Post Reply". And of course for users who didn't enter anything into the "Quick Reply", the "Full Editor & Preview" action comes up with an empty composition page, same as "Post Reply" normally does; since it's giving you "Full Editor & Preview" of what you entered in Quick Reply, which was "nothing."

But even making it the "Submit" action does solve the data loss problem; which is the most important aspect of the solution.


edit: My apologies, that is not how I was recollecting the "your message has too few characters" was being presented. Making "Post Reply" act as a "Submit" button, as the Quick Reply user may expect, does not "shut off" normal "Post Reply" behavior as I had described. "Submit" seems just as fine as "Full Editor & Preview" in that regard, and I was incorrect on that aspect.
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Re: If "Quick Reply" textbox is visible, make "Post Reply" link act as "Submit" button

Post by AmigoJack »

EA117 wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:41 pm
To say that the existing "Post Reply" button will become an action for this form (at least if it's done with native HTML) means that the Quick Reply-specific form now needs to span templates
No. What you write is only true/needed for i.e. <input and/or XHTML/HTML4. HTML5's <button form="" can be outside forms and still submit them - references:
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Re: If "Quick Reply" textbox is visible, make "Post Reply" link act as "Submit" button

Post by EA117 »

AmigoJack wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:02 pm
What you write is only true/needed for i.e. <input and/or XHTML/HTML4. HTML5's <button form="" can be outside forms and still submit them
Nice. Thanks for the info and the correction.
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Re: If "Quick Reply" textbox is visible, make "Post Reply" link act as "Submit" button

Post by thecoalman »

People are used to it opening the posting pane no matter what it says and I don't believe changing that behavior is appropriate. You would be better off removing it than substantially changing what it does. Instead give it same behavior as "Full Editor & Preview" so the text is transferred to posting pane. Even if that is unexpected the result is negligible.
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Re: If "Quick Reply" textbox is visible, make "Post Reply" link act as "Submit" button

Post by AmigoJack »

thecoalman wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:22 am
... used to it ... what it says ... removing it ... what it does ... give it same ...
What is "it"?
thecoalman wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:22 am
I don't believe changing that behavior is appropriate
The idea won't change any behaviour: clicking "Post Reply" would do the same as it does now for those who ignore the Quick Reply controls (because the Quick Reply text is empty and the result is loading the editor anyway - just try it once).
thecoalman wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:22 am
give it same behavior as "Full Editor & Preview"
First I wanted to propose this but it makes less sense for those who actually use the Quick Reply: they expect to not load an editor, so why an intermediate step when they wanted no preview to begin with?
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Re: If "Quick Reply" textbox is visible, make "Post Reply" link act as "Submit" button

Post by thecoalman »

AmigoJack wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:51 am
thecoalman wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:22 am
... used to it ... what it says ... removing it ... what it does ... give it same ...
What is "it"?
"It" is the post reply button.

irst I wanted to propose this but it makes less sense for those who actually use the Quick Reply: they expect to not load an editor, so why an intermediate step when they wanted no preview to begin with?
My point would be is for 20 years people have been hitting that button in that location using phpBB software and numerous other forum software. There is expectation it opens the posting pane. It's like changing the gas pedal on a car so it brakes under certain conditions, doesn't matter if you label it "brake". It's still the gas pedal.

Making it work like "Full Editor & Preview" doesn't really change what it does, it only adds functionality under the condition someone has typed text in the quick reply pane.
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Re: If "Quick Reply" textbox is visible, make "Post Reply" link act as "Submit" button

Post by EA117 »

thecoalman wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:17 pm
Making it work like "Full Editor & Preview" doesn't really change what it does, it only adds functionality under the condition someone has typed text in the quick reply pane.
Agreed on that analysis. The reason I still came around to "Submit" after seeing AmigoJack's analysis is just a "minor" additional achievement by taking the "Submit" route.

When someone does understand and does intentionally use the "Post Reply" button, everything you've said applies. Existing users expect that "Post Reply" should be opening up the full editor page, and "Full Editor & Preview" does that whether they had entered anything into the Quick Reply edit box or not. "That's what the button should do" isn't in dispute for users of the full editor.

But for the users who are expecting the full editor, this is still what's going to happen, even if the button action is "Submit" instead of "Full Editor & Preview". Because the users expecting this behavior when they hit "Post Reply" will not have entered anything into the Quick Reply edit box.

The users who we've effectively "changed the action for" by making it a "Submit" action will "only" be the actual Quick Reply users. They are the ones who did enter something into the Quick Reply area, but then the cat jumped on their keyboard and hit the "Post Reply" button. For those users, if the action is "Submit", they don't end up with an unexpected experience. They "hit the button labeled Post Reply", and it posted the reply they had composed in the Quick Reply edit box.

So if "users who expected Post Reply to open the full editor" are still getting the behavior they historically expect, and "users of Quick Reply who think Post Reply is inviting them to post the reply they just wrote" are getting the behavior they're expecting to happen, isn't "Submit" the slightly more advantageous solution? Rather than "Full Editor & Preview", in which the Quick Reply user scenario doesn't get what they expected based on the words "Post Reply".
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Re: If "Quick Reply" textbox is visible, make "Post Reply" link act as "Submit" button

Post by Dan Stylez »

Simple solution...

Move the quick reply box so it is below the post reply / moderator tools action bar.

Not many people would click "post reply" and lose their message if that button was above the whole quick reply box in the first place.

• Those that don't use quick reply won't notice any difference.
• Those that do use quick reply will not be confused by the change.

One simple change to viewtopic_body.html and bobs your uncle.

Result...
Image

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Re: If "Quick Reply" textbox is visible, make "Post Reply" link act as "Submit" button

Post by thecoalman »

That's a good idea Dan but I would still suggest "Post Reply" has same behavior as "Full Editor & Preview".
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Re: If "Quick Reply" textbox is visible, make "Post Reply" link act as "Submit" button

Post by EA117 »

Dan Stylez wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:16 pm
Move the quick reply box so it is below the post reply / moderator tools action bar.
Agree this seems like a good proposal for allowing better expectations to be intuited from the buttons and actions currently being presented. And doesn't require putting Quick Reply-specific logic outside of the Quick Reply template.

But since they are all simple solutions to implement, and the only real question is "what best solves the issue", its not clear for me that moving the template insertion "wins" over ensuring no data loss occurs if someone still hits the attractively-named "Post Reply" button. Even though moving the template insertion does appear to significantly affect the chances of doing so.
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Re: If "Quick Reply" textbox is visible, make "Post Reply" link act as "Submit" button

Post by Talk19Zehn »

My personal opinion is that the idea of ​​DAN is / can be completely sufficient.

If administrators or users don't know how to use a form, I don't know why and why the current versions should be "docked" during operation.
The form has existed since phpBB 3.0.7 / 3.0.7-PL1, and in my opinion, anyone who doesn't know how to use forms cannot expect a high-level conversion. In my opinion, anyone who sees conflicts, who recognize a quick reaction, who is allowed without frills, did not recognize the meaning at this point.
To my knowledge, this idea has a long history before it was introduced.

There are numerous users who do not need an editor at all because they have mastered the keyboard down to the smallest detail. And maybe want a review and / or there is a consensus to use the extensive editor afterwards ...

Language: Quick-Reply can also be supplemented by an explanation / break perhaps for better understanding.

Best regards and wishes :)
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Re: If "Quick Reply" textbox is visible, make "Post Reply" link act as "Submit" button

Post by 3Di »

Dan Stylez wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:16 pm
Simple solution...
SNIP
Brilliant. :geek:
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Re: If "Quick Reply" textbox is visible, make "Post Reply" link act as "Submit" button

Post by Random American »

thecoalman wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:41 pm
That's a good idea Dan but I would still suggest "Post Reply" has same behavior as "Full Editor & Preview".
This right here makes more sense to me. It doesn't change the behavior all that much, but it would prevent some users from losing their text.
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Re: If "Quick Reply" textbox is visible, make "Post Reply" link act as "Submit" button

Post by Ancient Viking »

thecoalman wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:41 pm
That's a good idea Dan but I would still suggest "Post Reply" has same behavior as "Full Editor & Preview".
I concur, Dan's idea is good. But doing that would basically remove the purpose of the quick reply editor, don't you think.

How about adding a "Preview" button in the quick reply editor?


Anyway, I don't see the need for this idea.
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