Time and contents guaranteed.

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wmorg
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Re: Time and contents guaranteed.

Post by wmorg »

warmweer wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:25 pm
wmorg wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:26 pm
Suppose someone wants to discuss a patentable idea with other people.

And like this are many many others; claim the originality of ideas, analysis, etc.
And ??? If I patent that idea before you, there's not much you'll be able to do about it. It's your word against mine and I've got 3 witnesses who recommended I take a patent on my idea because they saw that someone else was taking credit for it. 8-)

IMHO that is going very far in terms of laws and rights, both internationally and on national and local laws of the world.

In history there have been quite a few lawsuits over patent rights with all the results depending on various circumstances, and of course, being able to prove the originality of an idea is a lot.

In any case, even if the patent was lost, having the idea certified in time before any other, at least one will have something very important: the originality of the idea.

On all this, as I said at the beginning of this message, there have been many disputes in history, some famous ones were carried out by Edison and Tesla, as you surely know.

And again In any case, lets think in the many many different cases where certify de contents and link them to a moment is important. In my opinión it is interesting and useful. Perhaps the time will put the issue in its place........

Just different points of view.

Thanks, regards.
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KevC
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Re: Time and contents guaranteed.

Post by KevC »

Surely if you had some great idea that you were going to patent, the last place you would announce it before you got the job done is on a public forum!

I don't ever remember anyone asking for such a thing before in all the years I've been on here so I can't see it being implemented as standard. You might try for an extension request but again you'd be a bit hard pushed to find someone to make it as you're the only customer.
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wmorg
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Re: Time and contents guaranteed.

Post by wmorg »

KevC wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:16 pm
I don't ever remember anyone asking for such a thing before in all the years I've been on here

Most, if not all, breakthrough ideas have a beginning.

Thank you for your feedback.
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Lumpy Burgertushie
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Re: Time and contents guaranteed.

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie »

the biggest problem is that there is no way to really certify anything you post that is any better than the built in time stamp.

there is no central certification authority etc.
just because someone creates some type of extension that says "ok, this post is certified to have been posted on such and such a date and such and such a time " legally means nothing more that showing the built in time stamp already here.

who gets to say what "certified" means legally?

this is like having a form online that says are you over 18? there is no way possible to check that to make sure the poster is not lying about it.

same with any kind of certification thing .

it is an interesting idea, I can see there could be a use for it but just like the age verification thing, there is no way to verify it.

luck,
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wmorg
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Re: Time and contents guaranteed.

Post by wmorg »

Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:10 am
the biggest problem is that there is no way to really certify anything you post that is any better than the built in time stamp.

there is no central certification authority etc.
just because someone creates some type of extension that says "ok, this post is certified to have been posted on such and such a date and such and such a time " legally means nothing more that showing the built in time stamp already here.

who gets to say what "certified" means legally?

this is like having a form online that says are you over 18? there is no way possible to check that to make sure the poster is not lying about it.

same with any kind of certification thing .

it is an interesting idea, I can see there could be a use for it but just like the age verification thing, there is no way to verify it.

luck,
robert

I completely disagree, mate.

Trusted third parties, such as notaries, are already established in the digital age. There are official TSAs that certify what has been proposed.

Perhaps it would be necessary to adjust some operation from the technical point of view, nothing more.

And on the other hand: are you denying the technical consistency of bitcoin through blockchain (for example)?

What has been proposed is technically possible today. It would only be necessary to debug the functionalities and their implementation, by the hand of a TSA.

Thank you.
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EA117
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Re: Time and contents guaranteed.

Post by EA117 »

Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:10 am
the biggest problem is that there is no way to really certify anything...
This is exactly the purpose of a time-stamping authority; to provide a time stamp which can be proven, to the extent of the trust given to the provider. Even the Windows computer sitting in front of you wouldn't allow itself to boot, were it not for the verifiable time stamps present in the code-signing signatures on the kernel-mode drivers.

It's not "just a time stamp", which therefore would be "no different than the time stamp value phpBB is already providing." It's a time stamp, provided by a trusted provider, which is then wrapped in a publicly-verifiable certificate-based signature. Proving that the contained time stamp value is (a) unmodified, and (b) came from the trusted provider.

There is no technical dispute as to the purpose and validity of a time-stamping authority. Nor any technical dispute for how a public blockchain could provide an immutable and verifiable ledger of the content added to a site and when. The only dispute is how broad or beneficial the use case would be to phpBB users and site operators at large.

Given that this doesn't solve any long-standing or common problem among phpBB sites, and given the significant overheads to implementing and providing this capability, there is no reason to expect this might show up as a core phpBB functionality; no matter how well the idea gets expressed. Not that this should stop anyone who wants the functionality, since no one need agree with you in order to write and provide this functionality.
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HaioPaio
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Re: Time and contents guaranteed.

Post by HaioPaio »

Thank you, EA117
Some posts make me think „ you'd have better kept silent“. Your post is a good positive example of how it should be.
I agree with your conclusion and thank you for removing the fog.
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david63
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Re: Time and contents guaranteed.

Post by david63 »

One major concern that I would have with using a TSA would be the long term reliability. In my experience many third party services such as this, especially if it is a "free" offering, is liable to disappear overnight or change its T&Cs such that it becomes inoperable
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Re: Time and contents guaranteed.

Post by AmigoJack »

wmorg wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:20 am
a TSA (Time Stamping Authority)
EA117 wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:29 am
a time-stamping authority
...
provided by a trusted provider
I understand the concept and the advantages of it. For me this only shifts problems, as then the authority's trust must be questioned and its existence is a permanent requirement. In the past SSL root certificates and certificate authorities (such as Comodo) were trusted, and then turned out to be anything but trustworthy.

From experience I can tell boards or even only parts of it are subject to migrations (upgrade, import) that come with tiny or huge differences - and although the rendering of one post may be the same afterwards the way it is stored can differ a lot. At this point detail questions come up and will mostly lead to the answer "it was modified, tho" and the trusted timestamp is gone for good although rendering-wise nothing changed.

It might have been less irritating for other readers if explanations like "what is hash chaining or linked timestamping" would have been linked right away (pun intended: internet is all about links, not just text).
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