[BETA] Real Time Notifications

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Dragosvr92
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Re: [DEV] Auto-reload

Post by Dragosvr92 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:40 am

This sounds like a good feature. We should be shown the changes constantly but that is if the forum has active members that stay on the forum constantly and the board is very active. But..... even so, im not sure if people would stay to read the page every few minutes to see what updated/changed.
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Re: [DEV] Auto-reload

Post by Bruninoit » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:35 am

Dragosvr92 wrote:This sounds like a good feature. We should be shown the changes constantly but that is if the forum has active members that stay on the forum constantly and the board is very active. But..... even so, im not sure if people would stay to read the page every few minutes to see what updated/changed.
Yes, but if anyone wants, they will can. Other people will continue to frequent normally the forum.

However install this extension isn't obligatory :D

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Re: [DEV] Auto-reload

Post by cece74 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:29 am

know notifications Mchat? We would like those in real-time header.

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Re: [DEV] Auto-reload

Post by systemcrack » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:42 am

Oroton wrote:this is actually a good thing.

Two of probably the best forum softwares out there obviously already have this and are way ahead of phpbb.
and it's not that phpbb will die to them. Their complexity in using/setting up is no where near as user friendly as phpbb.

This could be a great addition to the phpbb wider community. Hopefully we will see it soon. As long as it's written well. I would be interested in the load/stress this may put on the server.

The problem i see is,

this is perfect when there is only a couple online, but could be problematic if say 50 plus are. And when you have 50 plus users online at once, is when this would be more beneficial.
I think it's just a matter of studying what is the best way to avoid "wasting energy" .. As for all the news it takes a bit of time to find the right balance .. it is just beginning. ;)
Sorry for my bad English ..

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Re: [DEV] Auto-reload

Post by imkingdavid » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:20 pm

When I'm actively browsing a forum, I tend to refresh the page fairly constantly to check on updates. Not having to do nearly as much so does seem like a good feature.

I'm not sure how this would add too much more load than there currently is when users have to refresh the page themselves. All this does is refresh certain sections for them. If you could somehow combine all of the different requests into one so that it's akin to one page refresh every few seconds, that'd probably help.
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Re: [DEV] Auto-reload

Post by peteetongman » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:40 pm

IMHO servers exist to serve us and do what WE want.

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Oroton
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Re: [DEV] Auto-reload

Post by Oroton » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:09 pm

Ok but on alot of free or cheap hosting regular polling will crash your database.
And this could cause a lot.

Like alot. maybe 15-20 queries per second to the db per user. the average flood limit of free db is i think
20 or 200? queries a second. it's either 75000/hour or 750000 queries an hour. so either one user or 10 uers at once could flat line it.

Don't believe me.

think about it this way..

Real world example/problem

I'm currently viewing the phpbb forums. I have 8 notifications. I open a tab for all of them,
I go to extensions and I open tabs for the threads i'm interested in keeping an update from. I load them.
This is how I view and read forums/multiple tabs.

Total I have 12 Tabs.

This is how I and other people I know read forums.
I read one while the others load, and close tabs as they are finished with that thread.

Now, If i have 11 tabs i'm not currently reading, doing a page refresh/ever 5 seconds.
That's a lot in the course of time that you are on the forum reading.

Thats 1872 refresh in 24 minutes. multiply that by say 2.5 then by how many average queries per page refresh and you have the amount of db queries per hour. The average db query on a vanilla phpbb is 15 per page reload. that is just on 70,000 queries per hour. for one user.


That's basically a page refresh every 0.7 seconds.

and i'll show you the formula to work it out.

Code: Select all

P = ((m*60)/r)(T(T+1)/2)(q)
To work out per hour

Code: Select all

P/t*m*60

Total Page queries while viewing = P
numbers of tabs = t
number of minutes to read each tab = m
number of seconds between refresh. = r
average queries per refresh = q

So you fill that in with your own real world example.

How I got to that formula.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So lets find out how many request are made per second.
t=12
m=2
r=5
q=15


First how long to view each tab in seconds..

m*60 = seconds (s)

Lets say it takes 2 minutes to read/reply to a tab.
m*60 = s
2*60 = 120.
s=120
Now how many refreshes are made per tab.

s/r = rt
120/5 = 24
rt=24

Now you have a lot of tabs open. but you close them as you read assuming you don't open any more. lets work out how many total tabs are open while viewing the forums in a descending order.
if we have 12 tabs, then 11 then 10 and so on.. this is the Triangular number or formua/ T12 n(n+1)/2
for tabs we'll use this.
x = T(T+1)/2

12(12+1)/2 = 78.
x =78


Now lets multiply the total number of tabs open whilst reading by total number of refreshes per tab = y

t*rt = y

78*24 = 1872
y = 1872

That's 1872 total refresh whilst reading your total tabs.
Which is 12 tabs by 2 minutes, so 1872 refresh in 24 minutes,

how many seconds per refresh = 60/x
seconds per refresh = 0.77

Now that is per user for page refresh, multiply that by how many queries are done per page reload.
the average phpbb queries are 15 per page.

that works out to almost 20 per second for total queries per user which is 70,000 queries per hour.

multiply that by how many uers online doing the same thing and you have big trouble.

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Re: [DEV] Auto-reload

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:14 pm

that is what I was talking about.

the bottom line is that phpbb is a bulletin board it is not a chat. the server load caused by a constantly reloading live chat is the main reason many many hosts do not allow you to run a chat script on their servers.

also, there are a couple of chat extensions in the works for phpbb if chat is what you want. how they deal with the server load situation I do not know.


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Re: [DEV] Auto-reload

Post by Bruninoit » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:26 am

If you don't want it, youwon't install it. If someone else have a server which it runs in, and want it, will install it.

It's useless to say that it's useless because someone wants it.

It isn't a new feature of phpBB :D

ps. in my opinion it's different to talk in a forum or in a chat even if the forum has the same reload of the chat.
Last edited by Bruninoit on Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [DEV] Auto-reload

Post by Bruninoit » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:22 pm

Soon I'll release the first very simple version... however it's possible to set some things like time of reload

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Re: [ALPHA] Real Time Notifications

Post by Oroton » Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:21 pm

yeah i'd be keen for that, even if it was say every 10 seconds.

I'd be more interested in the 'notifications' being polled.

I hate that it's static.

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Re: [ALPHA] Real Time Notifications

Post by Bruninoit » Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:39 pm

Yes, I'm working to the notifications and MP reload... there are some problem, but I hope to add soon this feature in my extension.

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Re: [ALPHA] Real Time Notifications

Post by peteetongman » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:39 pm

I'm sure Robert and Oroton are correct, but i remember a day when 250 MB hard disk drives in PCs were considered massive. Maybe if there is enough demand for more robust servers, they will appear. Not for free tho, I'm sure

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Re: [ALPHA] Real Time Notifications

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:37 pm

peteetongman wrote:I'm sure Robert and Oroton are correct, but i remember a day when 250 MB hard disk drives in PCs were considered massive. Maybe if there is enough demand for more robust servers, they will appear. Not for free tho, I'm sure
first pc in 1986, xerox was getting into the pc business, hard drive was 20MB ( not a typo), before windows...
everything ran off of 5 1/4 floppies.

ah for the good ole days.....not


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Re: [ALPHA] Real Time Notifications

Post by frax » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:44 pm

In my opinion, any update is only important for users online and for notifications.
In any case it is an interesting extension Brunino. ;)

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