PM to inactive users?

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stevemaury
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Re: PM to inactive users?

Post by stevemaury »

Martin Truckenbrodt wrote:Hello stevemaury,
I think it's absolutely nonsense to send PMs to users the board tells that they are not existing.

Why a deactivated user isn't allowed to use the board for posting but still can use other features?

BTW: Board wide email isn't allowed for deactivated users by now and by phpBB3 default.

Welcome PM:
I think these PMs should only be sent than the account activation process has been finished and the new user account has been activated completely and successfully.

Bye Martin
1. They are existing. They could be reactivated at any time.

2. What features can a deactivated user use? They can't log in to see the PMs until they are reactivated.

3. Welcome PM - phpbb would have to periodically run a query to determine if and when a user has been activated. If they never activate, phpbb would look forever. That would cost resources either way.
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Martin Truckenbrodt
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Re: PM to inactive users?

Post by Martin Truckenbrodt »

Hello stevemaury,
1. The board tells that they are not existing. That's a fact!

2. That's not the problem.

3. At the moment I know only one board with only one user that died. Performance reasons :?: :shock: :roll: I think in this point it would be better to tell the devs to include scheduled user auto pruning to phpBB3 to prune spam accounts automatically which never have been activated and the users never have been active :!:

Now the background of my question:
Like you can see it at the first post of this topic I want to add the new inactive reason INACTIVE_DEAD . So, if the devs will tell me the problem I found is not a bug either it's a new feature request I would have to add some extra IF statements to prevent other users to send PMs to dead humans.

Bye Martin
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stevemaury
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Re: PM to inactive users?

Post by stevemaury »

OK, you say bug, I say feature.

The message you get when you attempt to email an inactive users says the user does not exist. If there is any bug here, it is that message.

What is the difference between sending a PM to a dead person or to one who never opens the PM? In either event, the recipient will not get it, and the sender will know that because the message will stay in the outbox and never move to the sentbox.

Would it not make more sense to delete the dearly departed? No problem then.
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Martin Truckenbrodt
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Re: PM to inactive users?

Post by Martin Truckenbrodt »

Hello stevemaury,

I think it should be possible to honor the former active user in not deleting his account just to solve a strange technical software detail. E.g. let us think to pictures published at the photo gallery or to articles written with a CMS add on.

Off-Topic: You are naming a other strange point. I think it's not a good idea to allow users to disable the receiving of PMs. I think at least it should be possible to disable this feature board wide.
IMO it would be enough just to use friends&foes for this.
OK, you say bug, I say feature.
I've heard this several times from devs by now. You can say for nearly every of my validated phpBB3 MODs I've heard this sentence at least one time. ;) The best example: http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopi ... &t=1031705 . But it's absolutely okay if the devs are telling us what's right. It's their part!

Bye Martin
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Re: PM to inactive users?

Post by ToonArmy »

FWIW I say its a bug, certainly for regular users. Inactive users should not exist to the regular eye, there is a differentiation between the newly registered and other classes of inactivity which is important.

Edit: Personally you shouldn't be able to PM newly registered inactive accounts and accounts manually deactivated by the administrator. However its not exactly something of high importance to fix. ;)
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Re: PM to inactive users?

Post by Martin Truckenbrodt »

Hello Chris(ToonArmy),
thank you very much for the information!

Bye Martin
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Re: PM to inactive users?

Post by wGEric »

ToonArmy wrote:FWIW I say its a bug, certainly for regular users. Inactive users should not exist to the regular eye, there is a differentiation between the newly registered and other classes of inactivity which is important.

Edit: Personally you shouldn't be able to PM newly registered inactive accounts and accounts manually deactivated by the administrator. However its not exactly something of high importance to fix. ;)
Exactly. If I change my email address and my account is deactivated so I can verify the new email address I don't want to miss any PMs that could be sent during that period. Nor do I want users to know my account is deactivated.
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Re: PM to inactive users?

Post by stevemaury »

So, people seem to be saying we need to distinguish between at least 3 classes of inactive users - never activated, deactivated by admin action, and deactivated by their own action.

How high up the priority list should this go?
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Re: PM to inactive users?

Post by Martin Truckenbrodt »

Hello,
I hope not to make you angry. But perhaps devs should add now DOUBLE_ACTIVATION feature and true user auto pruning to core code. IMO it would make really sense. At least for the fight against the spam accounts.

Please don't kill me now! ;)

EDIT: Perhaps the problem could be solved if the two different states deactivated and inactive would be separated into two fields at the USERS_TABLE. One another point to this problem: http://www.phpbb.com/bugs/phpbb3/28655

Bye Martin
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Re: PM to inactive users?

Post by sandpiper_flyer »

ToonArmy wrote:FWIW I say its a bug, certainly for regular users. Inactive users should not exist to the regular eye, there is a differentiation between the newly registered and other classes of inactivity which is important.

Edit: Personally you shouldn't be able to PM newly registered inactive accounts and accounts manually deactivated by the administrator. However its not exactly something of high importance to fix. ;)
It's a security issue that's for sure. I just found out that after banning members for gross misconduct they've still been receiving emails from the forum. They have no way to stop the emails because they cannot login anymore, so someone report our forum for sending out spam and now our IP is blocked.

So why are normal registered members permitted to send PM's to Account deactivated by administrator members? let alone having the PM notice sent out via email. That just doesn't seem right at all.
Not exactly something of high importance to fix
is that the official phpBB stand or is there somewhere I can register my concern to raise the level of importance for this fix please. Should I report it as an official bug?
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Re: PM to inactive users?

Post by Acyd Burn »

narqelion wrote:
Martin Truckenbrodt wrote:So now I've noticed that it is possible to send PM to deactivated users on my developement board. Is this true? Is this a bug? Or, what's the reason for this?
Yes you can do this. You would have to ask the developers the reason. :)
I do not know if this has already been answered here, but the reason for this is quite simple. Once users change their profile info and therefore need to re-activate their account (email change for example) they are inactive for some time. Not allowing to send them PM's is IMO not nice(tm). This is the reason. And before this comes up... yes, of course you could query the database for the inactive reason and then still decline if the reason fits in - but i think i answered the question.
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Re: PM to inactive users?

Post by narqelion »

Yes I think we all understand the changing of email address issue, but a user being "inactive" should be treated the same regardless of the reason for being inactive. If I choose to change my email address and render my account disabled for 1 minute or 1 day or 1 week, that is my choice and I accept the fact that during that period of inactivity I should not be able to use any part of the board. The PM system is not the main function of a bulletin board, it is ancillary at best so why should preserving it's functionality for an inactive user be imperative when the main function of the board, i.e. posting is denied to the inactive user? That seems very illogical to me.

Currently inactive users are not supposed to exist from the viewpoint of regular users yet while they cannot post or otherwise access the board, they can still receive PM's. :?
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Re: PM to inactive users?

Post by Acyd Burn »

If I choose to change my email address and render my account disabled for 1 minute or 1 day or 1 week, that is my choice and I accept the fact that during that period of inactivity I should not be able to use any part of the board.
The user has no choice here - the board dictates that the user is inactive if he changes his email, this is nothing i chose as a user and therefore i would be quite irritated if i am then vanished from the board altogether.
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Re: PM to inactive users?

Post by narqelion »

How is a user changing their email address not 100% their own choice? :D And deactivation does not remove you from the board altogether, that would be being deleted. ;)
Acyd Burn wrote:the board dictates that the user is inactive if he changes his email, this is nothing i chose as a user and therefore i would be quite irritated if i am then vanished from the board altogether.
Isn't that what you have already designed? When I change my email address my account gets deactivated. At that point I vanish from the member list and my profile returns "The requested user does not exist." You cannot select PM the user from any page view but you can still type in the username manually in the To: field and send a PM, that sure seems like a loophole to me. :P

p.s. What is your expectation of a reasonable amount of time for a user to reactivate their account after they have changed their email address? An active member of the community who chooses to do this is likely going to do it immediately. Personally I do not see that minute amount of time as enough justification to preserve their ability to receive PM's. If for whatever reason they never reactivate their account, what then? You let PM's build up in the database filling up valuable db space with no ability to monitor them or clean them out?
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Martin Truckenbrodt
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Re: PM to inactive users?

Post by Martin Truckenbrodt »

Hello,
narqelion pointed and told the issue 100% correctly!

Bye Martin
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