One-Click Installations

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JetWash
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One-Click Installations

Post by JetWash » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:59 pm

Hello,

I have recently come to the realization that phpBB does not support it's product to those whom use one(1)-click installations like Fantastico, Installatron and Softcalous :x

I have been using phpBB since it was released back in it's 2.0.21 and 2.0.22 forms respectively. I had received some excellent support from the community back on these releases when it was installed through Fantastico.

What has changed since then, I do not understand how phpBB can not support it's program once installed through such 3rd party applications, sure phpBB is getting it's brand out there but why cut off all support to it's uses - highy irrespectable to the fact that it's a well known board.

I find it highly outrageous that phpBB would allow it's continual installation through such methods and then knock back it's support, consumers are installing the same product, same version, with same updates when they are using the 1-click installation software so why go and cut there support if they do not download it via the website?

It really does put customers like myself off the product.

-JT
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stevemaury
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Re: One-Click Installations

Post by stevemaury » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:06 pm

phpbb has never supported these types of installations. The main reason is that it is NOT our software. These installers modify and break the software to allow this installation method in ways that we cannot know, although we know many of the symptoms, like:

1. Usernames need to be all lowercase, but no advice of that is given

2. No language specific imageset for all the languages and styles provided. leading to no Post, Reply, etc. buttons.

3. Improper designation of the default_style in the config table

4. Usually behind two or three versions

5. Updates that wipe out MODs
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Erik Frèrejean
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Re: One-Click Installations

Post by Erik Frèrejean » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:06 pm

Well the main issue is that most "one-click" install packages differ from the package that is provided by the phpBB group (the download on this site). The one-click packages are usually modified to allow them to be one-click installed or include features the official package doesn't ship.
Due to this we can't support a package that isn't controlled by us as we can't keep track of all changes made to the package and know how they might cause issues (same as with MODs). We'll support one-click installs to the point it gets obvious that the issue is caused by the one click install package that is used, from this point the author of the one click installed should provide support (again same with MODs). An other option is that we can help you convert away from the one click installer to the full/official package.

If you have a look around the support forums you'll find multiple issues that keep popping up and are caused by the one-click install package (the issue doesn't and has never been in phpBB itself)
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EXreaction
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Re: One-Click Installations

Post by EXreaction » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:13 pm

JetWash wrote:I find it highly outrageous that phpBB would allow it's continual installation through such methods
The software is GPL, anyone is allowed to modify and re-release the software as they would like. As such we have no legal ability to say how one click installation packages can or cannot modify and use our software. They are free to modify (and mess up) the installations as they would like to.

It is unfortunate that they do mess up the installations as they do, but it is not anything we can fix as we do not have control over it.

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Re: One-Click Installations

Post by Marshalrusty » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:13 pm

I think saying that we don't support our product is unfair. What we don't support is issues created by 3rd party tools. I mean, how could you expect us to? Steve (above) gives a decent breakdown of what we have encountered from users who use such products.

Here are the support team guidelines on the matter:
  1. Forks/preMODs, third party installs, modified installs, limited access installs. #
    1. Like MOD authors, organisations which release Forks/preMODs of phpBB are responsible for their maintenance and support. Users requesting assistance with a phpBB preMOD should be respectfully instructed to contact the vendor for assistance. Such topics should be left open to allow follow up questions, such as how to convert back to phpBB standard. Users who continue to demand support should have their topics locked. [See: Users who do not comply] #
    2. Users requesting assistance for limited access phpBB installs should generally be instructed to contact their providers. Simple questions, such as those relating to existing phpBB features, should be answered. Such topics should be left open to allow follow up questions. #
    3. Support for third party installs (Fantastico, host installs, etc.) or MODed boards should be provided until it is clear that the problem is caused by changes to the code or database schema. In the case of host installs, the user may be respectfully directed to contact the host for assistance. Instructions may be given for updating to the latest version of phpBB3 via uploading a fresh set of files to the server and running install/database_update.php, if necessary. The user should be directed to make a backup of the existing phpBB folder before proceeding. #
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JetWash
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Re: One-Click Installations

Post by JetWash » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:21 pm

What would stop a "Customer" coming to the board and saying they did not install it via this method when they did :?

How would you know whether this occured, I mean as mentioned I have used it since the 2.0.22 release and I received full support on these forums even though I had it installed via this method?

I understand what you are saying about the support and the installers breaking the codes but why allow them to in the first place, it does set some people off when you cannot get support for a product in which is ready available.

I am just disappointed is all :(
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Re: One-Click Installations

Post by ChrisRLG » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:25 pm

JetWash wrote:I am just disappointed is all
Your disappointment should be directed to whom supplied your software in the state you received it - your hosting company.
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Re: One-Click Installations

Post by Erik Frèrejean » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:30 pm

JetWash wrote:What would stop a "Customer" coming to the board and saying they did not install it via this method when they did
Well sure nothing, but at a certain point we'll find out that the problem isn't caused by the phpBB code itself. See some of the issues pointed out by Steve. Its similar with MODs we'll provide support until its clear that the problem is caused by code that was added/changed by a third party. You can hardly expect us to support stuff we don't control/haven't written/don't know how it works.
JetWash wrote:but why allow them to in the first place
Because of the GPL, you/everyone are/is free to do with phpBB what you want. You can modify it/redistribute it/etc as long the copyright remains intact (per the license) you can do everything with it. This includes the creation and redistribution of pre-mods/forks/one-click installers. This is really the same as with MODs.
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Re: One-Click Installations

Post by Marshalrusty » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:45 pm

As Chris says, I'm not sure why you're disappointed with us; we're not the ones who broke your installation.

We take active steps to prevent bugs in our software by running extra checks on input during installation/conversion. In other words, we protect users from themselves and their environments (many of which don't use standards and cause issues with unicode, etc.). These one-click-installers circumvent our protections and inject broken data into the database without properly understanding how it all works (which causes undesired behavior later). When you present these bugs to us, we know it's caused by the direct injection since we know of the steps taken to prevent such things by default.

In other words, please don't be "disappointed" with us for something we have no control over. I have personally emailed these companies in the past asking for them to fix their installation software. They did once and they ignored me a number of times afterward.
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Re: One-Click Installations

Post by ric323 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:19 pm

JetWash wrote:Hello,

I have recently come to the realization that phpBB does not support it's product to those whom use one(1)-click installations like Fantastico, Installatron and Softcalous :x
...
Are you referring to a specific incident?
It can't be one of your own questions, you haven't asked one since 2008.
The rule we work by is http://www.phpbb.com/rules/#rule4a
Official packages released by the phpBB Team and available through this website are given the highest allocation of support resources. Very limited support will be offered for phpBB related packages downloaded from other websites, including repackaged versions of the software. Primary support should always be sought from the distributors of the product that you are using.
As Marshalrusty already pointed out, we DO support questions that are run of the mill phpBB3 usage issues.
The particular problems caused by Fantastico we do try to fix, but often that requires that you completely replace the files installed by Fantastico with a clean set downloaded from here.

p.s. Has your board moved? The domain in your signature is no longer registered.
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