advanced email notification

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DWFII
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advanced email notification

Post by DWFII »

3.2 needs an extension that will include the first paragraph (or x number of characters) in the body of email notifications.

phpBB has lagged behind other php software in this regard for some time. prime Notify did the job but it has been abandoned.

I can't figure out why this isn't a choice target for an extension...certainly there's enough talent out in the community, isn't there?

Thoughts?
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Re: advanced email notification

Post by david63 »

DWFII wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:04 pm I can't figure out why this isn't a choice target for an extension.
Possibly because there is a move away from using email to using notifications, not just with phpBB but generally.
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Re: advanced email notification

Post by DWFII »

But in software such as Zenforo and others email notification is always an option. i personally don't care for online "alerts" or notifications. It doesn't make sense that a user should be "forced" to go to the forum every day to check whether a topic he is watching has had a reply.

And if an email notification is going to be sent out anyway, it only make sense to give the receiver a "heads up" by including an excerpt.

That feature was / is really and truly a hugely attractive aspect. I hate to see forum software becoming more and more Facebook-like.
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Re: advanced email notification

Post by canonknipser »

My personal opinion:
If you receive to many mails, you are going to trash them without reading.
If you are interested on the topic of a board, you will visit it quite often.

Being active on a lot of forum platforms, I disabled all email-notification (except for those where I have to act as a administrator or moderator) because those mails spam my email-account.
DWFII wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:37 pm But in software such as Zenforo and others email notification is always an option
same in phpBB. You can even enable notifications without participating in a topic, just click on the wrench at the end of the topic and subscribe.
DWFII wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:37 pm give the receiver a "heads up" by including an excerpt.
This should be done by choosing a good topic title (something different from a "Hi" or "Help" ...), so you can decide to read the topic if you are interested. On "good" boards the moderator team has a look on topic titles as well.
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Re: advanced email notification

Post by DWFII »

canonknipser wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:07 pm My personal opinion:
If you receive to many mails, you are going to trash them without reading.
If you are interested on the topic of a board, you will visit it quite often.

Being active on a lot of forum platforms, I disabled all email-notification (except for those where I have to act as a administrator or moderator) because those mails spam my email-account..
First, if you are receiving that many emails from forums you're addicted and need to get a life. :lol: I say that with great respect and no small amount of humour. But most of my members, as well as myself (and I've been on Internet forums since the 'net was Fidonet) aren't that immersed. I post to a number of different forums--from gaming to support to lifestyle forums. But I control email input by the threads I subscribe to...and I don't consider it spam since I "asked" for it with my subscription.

That said, if I get...say...fifteen email notifications from a particular thread on any given forum i can scan the excerpts and decide whether I want to participate. At which point I just follow the link to the first of the fifteen and delete all fifteen from my email program en masse. Click shift click...how hard is that?

As the software (not just phpBB) has become less and less intimate, less inclusive and less powerful in terms of what it offers the average user; as it has moved closer to the run-of-the-mill social media paradigm, many users have moved to Facebook.

DWFII wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:37 pm give the receiver a "heads up" by including an excerpt.
This should be done by choosing a good topic title (something different from a "Hi" or "Help" ...), so you can decide to read the topic if you are interested. On "good" boards the moderator team has a look on topic titles as well.
In my mind, the excerpt is a reaching out and a mark of respect...for the user's time, commitment and right to choose. On my forum users are not allowed to create new topics. So choosing a "good" topic title is not an issue. None are along the lines of "Hi."

There has been many a time, esp. on lifestyle forums when the reply to a post is simply "thanks" or a smilie. On the basis of an excerpt, I might appreciate that the discussion is going forward but not want to go to the forum at that moment. Or perhaps the discussion devolves into a spat (never happens here) between two individuals. I don't always feel like I'm obligated to bear witness and the only way I might know is to see the excerpt--it gives me a choice as a user.

Horses for courses, obviously but surely choice is good. and more choice even better. heck, you migh create such an extension and even (gasp) offer Admin or the user the ability to turn off excerpts.

How revolutionary might that be? !

How hard?
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Re: advanced email notification

Post by canonknipser »

All boards and users are different. ;)
However, maybe you can have a look at the digest extension (still in development): viewtopic.php?f=456&t=2354426
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Re: advanced email notification

Post by DWFII »

canonknipser wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:49 pm All boards and users are different. ;)
Well, we agree on that. But somehow I have gotten it into my brain that that's exactly what extensions are about--to create options and choice, and unique forums, and extend functionality.

Probably 90% of the extensions in the data base are of little interest or anyone with a forum such as mine. many of them are duplicates of other extensions that do more or less the same thing or they are marketing tools.

Since you were so kind as to answer my questions or at least express an opinion, I assume you could create such an extension. But despite the fact that it would be more or less unique (not one of an endless array of clones) and several others have expressed similar interest, you don't really have any desire to do so.

The "why" is what I don't understand.

However, maybe you can have a look at the digest extension (still in development): viewtopic.php?f=456&t=2354426
Interesting but not really what I had in mind. It seems somewhat complicated as well. I want an extension to do one thing really well, not a half dozen loosely related tasks...and wash the dishes too.

[sigh] If only someone would modify and revive Prime Notify. It was good.
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Re: advanced email notification

Post by canonknipser »

DWFII wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:17 pm I assume you could create such an extension.
I don't think I will ever do that.

There are several reasons for that:
  • the default notification system sends only one notification after the user has visited a subscribed topic and a new post is made until the user returns to that specific topic
    For your usecase:
    "Visit the board again when interesting content is posted" it will not work, because the first post after your last visit may not have enough content to let you visit again.
    so
    DWFII wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:36 pm That said, if I get...say...fifteen email notifications from a particular thread on any given forum i can scan the excerpts and decide whether I want to participate.
    you will not have those fifteen or whatever (email) notifications, but only one from the first reply.
  • because of this, you must have a system to decide when and how often interested user will get notifications.
    Should it be after every new post? After a dedicated time intervall or at a given time (which is implemented in the digest extension, afaik)
  • maybe a alternative to an active notification from the board will be a feed which you can read without opening the board? Atom feeds are already bulltin in phpBB and very simple to activate in acp, for this specific forum it is feed/forum/496
  • as a hobby developer, I don't need that specific extension and for that I don't have any interest to develop it. ;) If the mentioned digest extension does not fit your needs, I hope you will find someone to develop that extension for you.
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Re: advanced email notification

Post by DWFII »

canonknipser wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:17 pm [*]maybe a alternative to an active notification from the board will be a feed which you can read without opening the board? Atom feeds are already bullt in in phpBB and very simple to activate in acp, for this specific forum it is feed/forum/496
This is new to me...where can i find out more about it?
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Re: advanced email notification

Post by canonknipser »

Go to your acp - "Board configiration" - "feed settings" - it should be quite clear on that settings page.
The display of feed icons is disabled by default in the phpBB-templates, but the link to feeds themselves are in every page (when activated), and to open eg. with firefox: right mouse click - Page information - look for the tab "Feeds"
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Re: advanced email notification

Post by DWFII »

Thanks for the info.

After looking at this (admittedly not in great detail) I don't think it addresses the issues the way I want it to.

For one thing, the feed appears to be indiscriminate--I can't limit what I am presented with simply by subscribing or unsubscribing, IOW.

Which raises the question of why subscriptions even exist if, henceforth forums are going to rely on feeds and alerts.

Let me ask...Is there some sort of copyright on extensions?

Prime Notify was a fine addition to phpBB. Admittedly it was a mod rather than an extension. But it is also officially abandoned and the author does not respond to PM's. Couldn't someone pick it up and revise it to work with phpBB3.2?

Because if options, choice and variety are valued and a homogenizing slide of phpBB into a FB clone to be avoided, there is still a need for advanced email notification...IMO.
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Re: advanced email notification

Post by AmigoJack »

DWFII wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:36 pmsince the 'net was Fidonet
If you're not fond of web feeds then it can roughly be described as a read-only Usenet: you just subscribe to all feeds that you want (i.e. the one about this very topic) and based on how good your feed reader is (internet browsers themselves are somewhat limited for this purpose) it will let you freely mix articles of all feeds and sort them by date, or categorize them by day, or whatever. And phpBB topic feeds always will give you more than only excerpts - example:

Image

Advantages over e-mails:
  • the board's server can't be flagged as spam from users (neither acidentally nor willfully)
  • vanishing user's just won't call the feeds anymore, in contrast to never reading notification e-mails anymore
  • there are no bounces, as rejections cannot occur (such as full e-mail inbox or being in a spam database)
  • you're not giving out any address which can find its way to spammers
  • "The problem is probably not my English but you do not want to understand correctly. ... We will not come anybody anyway, nevertheless, it's best to shit this." Affin, 2018-11-20
  • "But this shit is not here for you. You can follow with your. Maybe the question, instead, was for you, who know, so you shoved us how you are." axe70, 2020-10-10
  • "My reaction is not to everyone, especially to you." Raptiye, 2021-02-28
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Re: advanced email notification

Post by andrewilley »

I would find such an extension very useful too. I must admit I assumed there would be one already as it's such an obvious bit of functionality that some users might require.

I run a very low volume board with only a few messages a day (which is fine, it serves its purpose) but because of that the percentage of spam messages to real messages becomes greater. I have email notifications set for all new posts (as I said, low volume so that works for me) and it would be very useful to be able to quickly see from the email body whether the newly posted content looks spammy (i.e. needs addressing immediately) or a real post which I may be able look at later in the day when I have more time. At the moment, I have to open the board on my phone every time anything is posted, just in case its spam, which is annoying and time-consuming.

If no extension is available, I guess I could just modify the appropriate template file, but that gets more messy when upgrading the board. A simple toggle option in the ACP would be perfect.

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Re: advanced email notification

Post by AmigoJack »

andrewilley wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:40 amit would be very useful to be able to quickly see from the email body
Then a Usenet newsgroup is more appropriate for your needs than a bulletin board. Why using a website if you want to do everything by e-mail anyway?

andrewilley wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:40 amAt the moment, I have to open the board on my phone every time anything is posted, just in case its spam, which is annoying and time-consuming
That's why you have the post approval feature.


Everybody requesting such a feature either misses the intention of a BBS like phpBB or doesn't know alternatives or doesn't even know phpBB in detail. Over all the years not one of those requests had a good reason.
  • "The problem is probably not my English but you do not want to understand correctly. ... We will not come anybody anyway, nevertheless, it's best to shit this." Affin, 2018-11-20
  • "But this shit is not here for you. You can follow with your. Maybe the question, instead, was for you, who know, so you shoved us how you are." axe70, 2020-10-10
  • "My reaction is not to everyone, especially to you." Raptiye, 2021-02-28
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Re: advanced email notification

Post by DWFII »

AmigoJack wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:55 pm Everybody requesting such a feature either misses the intention of a BBS like phpBB or doesn't know alternatives or doesn't even know phpBB in detail. Over all the years not one of those requests had a good reason.
All this is according to you. Conforming to your vision...with no allowance for anyone else's POV.

I had Prime Notify running on the previous version of phpBB. My users liked it. As an administrator, I liked it...I valued it. It made me hold off upgrading til I was almost forced to upgrade, just because I didn't want to lose that functionality.

I get email constantly, including email from my forum. I don't have to do anything. I can read the email I get from private parties with very little hassle or effort other than the receiving.

Email notifications from this, and other forums force me to open my browser and go to my forum and even drill down to the last post in a discussion. With no idea what I am going to encounter or how relevant it is. Not a lot of effort, really, but as-near-as-nevermind more than is necessary--esp. if the discussion or post is one I don't want to reply to...for whatever reason. I know the theory--"blank" email notifications force the user to go to the forum and that...theoretically...increases participation. But that "forcing", that lack of choice also forces many people to withdraw from engagement.

And that lack of choice is...or ought to be...diametrically opposed to the fundamental philosophy of having a forum in the first place.

As for the Usenet argument--that's bogus. There is no reason in the world that the best features of any system shouldn't be incorporated into phpBB, if it is possible. I don't want to see phpBB become a Facebook clone but IMO, it is the rigidity and the close-mindedness of arguments such as these that has made FB ascendant and forum software (of all kinds) increasingly laboured and beside-the-point.
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