[ABD] URL Rewriting (SEO URLs)

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brunoais
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Re: [DEV] SEO URLs

Post by brunoais » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:35 pm

tas2580 wrote:
brunoais wrote:Read the HTTP specification on the 301 status code, then read how browsers implement it (just the consequences is enough) then come back here again and answer again.
I know how 301 works. But I can't see why it should throw the user into an endless redirect loop. At now I don't do a 301 redirect, I use the canonical tag and if I will implement it in later versions it will generate the correct URL and compare it to the request URL. If both are the same no problem, if they are not the same I make one 301 to the right URL, then it will compare again, the URLs are the same and all is good. You see no way to get a endless redirect loop because after the first redirect the URL is ever correct.
Do as I mention. Study how cache is used to modify what the user writes.
Do note that this is en edge case situation! You still are not testing this potential fail.
tas2580 wrote:
brunoais wrote:Do you include such script in the uninstall process?
Not yet, maybe I will include it later but now the extension is in a early state of development and I have to do other thinks first.
OK. As long as you do it, it's OK.
tas2580 wrote:
brunoais wrote:I just wish I had a minimally intelligent discussion with you... But then... you fail at the most basic thing here... SEO optimization through urls is completely useless.
This thread is about the development of this extension and not about SEO optimization. If you think that URL rewriting is completely useless its OK and you don't need to use this. I don't think so and I will use it in my forum, maybe someone else also don't think that it's useless and so he can use it too.
If you want to have a discussion about SEO we can do it in another thread. If we do it here the thread will get cluttered and I will maybe miss bug reports or other questions to the extension it self.
You are "selling" this extension as it being something that does optimization for search engine (derived from the definition of SEO) results which is fully deceiving. The truth is that this is only good for users and it is neutral to search engines.

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cece74
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Re: [DEV] SEO URLs

Post by cece74 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:25 pm

brunoais wrote:You are "selling" this extension as it being something that does optimization for search engine (derived from the definition of SEO) results which is fully deceiving. The truth is that this is only good for users and it is neutral to search engines.
I confirm. I SEO for job.

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Re: [DEV] SEO URLs

Post by VSE » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:55 pm

Perhaps a simple name change would be helpful here, Friendly URLs or something like that.
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tas2580
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Re: [DEV] SEO URLs

Post by tas2580 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:07 pm

brunoais wrote:Do as I mention. Study how cache is used to modify what the user writes.
Do note that this is en edge case situation! You still are not testing this potential fail.
I have written my first SEO mod for phpBB 2.0.x in 2004. Than I have written one for phpBB 3.0.x, so believe me I have tested this. I think that it should be clear that you don't cache 301 in this case. But now we are in 2015 and we have the canonical meta tag so I think there is no more need for 301 redirects and the discussion is superfluous. We can come back to it if I decide to use 301 again.
brunoais wrote:The truth is that this is only good for users and it is neutral to search engines.
Do you have any evidence for this statement?

OK, I will give you some examples that Keywords in URL is a ranking factor. And now please give me at least one link where Google says that you should not use keywords in URLs.

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Re: [DEV] SEO URLs

Post by tas2580 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:28 pm

VSE wrote:Perhaps a simple name change would be helpful here, Friendly URLs or something like that.
OK if it will bring some peace in here I have no problem to change the title. But I think SEO URLs is a common name for rewriting URLs, see projects like http://www.phpbb-seo.com/ or see http://moz.com/learn/seo/url or just google for "seo urls" and see what you will find.

Edit:
cece74 wrote:I confirm. I SEO for job.
And why you use URL rewriting in your forum on http://www.microcosmoacquari.it/forum/?

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cece74
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Re: [DEV] SEO URLs

Post by cece74 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:33 pm

The rewriting of the URL is still part of seo, right tas2580. :)

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Re: [DEV] SEO URLs

Post by brunoais » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:49 pm

I won't insist on this as this is becoming a dead end:
tas2580 wrote:
brunoais wrote:The truth is that this is only good for users and it is neutral to search engines.
Do you have any evidence for this statement?

OK, I will give you some examples that Keywords in URL is a ranking factor.
  • Look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=971qGsTPs8M - Second 10 - 15:
    It seems that having relevant Keywords in URLs is very helpfull
    And than Matt Cutts:
    Agreed
    If you would be right Matt Cutts would say something like "No that's wrong Keywords in URLs doesn't matter" and he would not make a video to explain the difference between Keywords in paths or Keywords in filenames.
That's easy to understand, it's easy to understand why he agrees.
It improves user experience by making the url more readable. I agree on that. The url does become more readable and it gives more information than if it was just a code.
By agreeing, he doesn't necessarily say that it improves search engine score, given that, that justification is moot.
tas2580 wrote:
Again, that's not SEO, that's user experience. Another moot one.
tas2580 wrote:
Again, what is wrong with that? It improves user experience.
tas2580 wrote: And now please give me at least one link where Google says that you should not use keywords in URLs.
I won't find any because a link with proper keywords improves user experience, it never degradates it more than a link with just code. But again, that has nothing to do with the search engine, it is only about user experience. Another moot.

So you see, it would be better if I was having an actual discussion but with you only trying to justify what I already agree while completely ignoring what I'm against will just throw us into an endless loop. I tried to warn you but you simply ignored me, your loss.

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Re: [DEV] SEO URLs

Post by Volksdevil » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:28 pm

brunoais wrote:Again, what is wrong with that? It improves user experience.
I think what the OP is pointing out is that, when you search google, the search words can be highlighted in the URL if of course they are there... Example: A search for Corrado G60 Forum, notice the top result (Mine :D :lol: ) how the words 'Corrado' and 'G60' are bold in the URL, like so. www.[b][color=#FF0000]corradog60[/color][/b].com/

I've always been sceptical about so called SEO URL's...Friendly yes, I understand that although I don't see a massive need on a forum. But even though I am sceptical about any SEO benefit, the bold thing has always made me wonder...

Why would google highlight words in the URL?
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Re: [DEV] SEO URLs

Post by tas2580 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:02 pm

@brunoais
You give statements without any evidence, contrariwise in p13895256 you linked to a graphic that says that keywords in URL and keyword in links (keyword in URL bring automatic keyword in linktexts because some people link only with the URL) is a ranking factor. So please give me a trusted link that says the converse. Only because you say that keywords in URL is no use for SEO makes it not right no matter how many times you repeat it.

But you see the discussion will have no end, and there for I have said no discussion about the sense of SEO because this leads to nothing. At now I will ignore all posts about the sense of SEO and only answer to questions about the extension!

Can we now come back to topic please and talk about the extension it self and not about the sense of SEO?

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Re: [DEV] SEO URLs

Post by VSE » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:04 pm

How will this extension account for other extensions that have forum and topic links? Like Recent Topics, Portals, etc. Currently it does not work on them.

PS: You should document somewhere in the install guides what to do with the htaccess.
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Re: [DEV] SEO URLs

Post by PayBas » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:36 pm

Although I agree that this is more "User-friendly URLs" than "SEO URLs", I don't really understand the hate.

It's still in early DEV stage from what I can tell. And if he wants to create a user-friendly urls extension he's more than welcome to do/try it.

But like brunoais has indicated, you're going to have to cover all the bases for this to work well.

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Re: [DEV] SEO URLs

Post by AyaB » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:40 am

tas2580 wrote:keyword in URL bring automatic keyword in linktexts because some people link only with the URL
And that's why "pretty URLs" are useful for SEO in the first place. Most people just paste the URL or link you with a "here" text. At most they will use the headline of your article, and that beign lucky.

I was waitting for an extension like this, not only because I think it works, also because I think a URL should have semantic structure this days.

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Re: [DEV] SEO URLs

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:42 am

none of your links above say anything about SEO/ranking based on keywords in urls.
every single one is discussing user benefits, not SEO.

SEO= Search Engine Optimization

that means things that will make a difference in where your site will show up in a search result for relevant keywords. that has nothing to do with how or if a human can make sense out of a url or not.

yes, if you type in widget in your search and google finds the url widgets.com then the word widgets will be bolded ( sometimes ).
if your site is domain.com/products/worldsbestwidget.html

google will see and understand that the word widget is in that string.

( back over 5 years ago when that video you posted the link to was made, google was not very good at this , therefore Matt suggested that you use hyphens between words. google does not need this any longer ).

that is another thing about the links you provided. all of them are out of date now. the search engine algos change rapidly. what googled needed 5 years ago may or may not still be relevant today.

for instance the search engines stopped paying any attention at all to the keyword meta tag many years ago so there is no longer a reason to even put it in the head section of a site.

anyway, yes, we ( I ) have really taken over your extension topic and I apologize for that. there is certainly no reason why you can't develop whatever extension you wish. and anyone that wants to use it is certainly free to do so whether is does what they hope it will or not.
It is really hard for me to stay out of discussions about this particular topic. I have a problem when people post incorrect information about this and I need to work on that.....
so, having said that, I am out on this one. let's let it get back on topic.


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Re: [DEV] SEO URLs

Post by tas2580 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:28 am

VSE wrote:How will this extension account for other extensions that have forum and topic links? Like Recent Topics, Portals, etc. Currently it does not work on them.
Yes, this is a big problem for that I have no solution at now. But I try to find a way to solve the problem with 2 other guys they working on a URL rewriting extension too. At now the URLs will not change, but they will work any way and because of the canonical meta tag you will get no duplicate content.
VSE wrote:PS: You should document somewhere in the install guides what to do with the htaccess.
Good objection, I have add it to the install description at github.
PayBas wrote:I don't really understand the hate.
I don't want to hate anyone. But there for I din't want to have a discussion of the sense of SEO or if URL is a ranking factor. Because it ends ever in the same and leads to nothing...
No one of us know how Google rank websites so it's like religion, anyone believe something but no one can prove anything. So if I offended anyone I'am sorry for that and I hope we can talk now about the extension it self and not about the sense of URL rewriting and SEO. I think there for its better to open a own topic.

Edit
To bring some peace in here I have changed the title of the topic. I don't want to remove SEO complete from it because I think people who search for a extension like this will search for SEO.

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Re: [DEV] SEO URLs

Post by brunoais » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:03 am

tas2580 wrote: Edit
To bring some peace in here I have changed the title of the topic. I don't want to remove SEO complete from it because I think people who search for a extension like this will search for SEO.
Thank you :).
BTW, you have a typo in the first line of the OP post.

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