3.2.2 reports wrong amount of posts/topics & how to remove soft delete?

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IanMc
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3.2.2 reports wrong amount of posts/topics & how to remove soft delete?

Post by IanMc » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:29 am

I'm just setting up a forum here: http://www.GoodFunThings.com/forum You're welcome to mess about with it as it's not being used yet.

Firstly in my messing around it seems that it is reporting the wrong amount of topics and posts.

Secondly I hate the idea of soft deleting! It means my forum us going to be littered with posts that say "This post was deleted by ...."
I do not want that! Who wants that?

I did some research and one poster mentioned that you need to change the Moderator permissions to not allow soft deleting.
I thought I'd found that but nope, when I login as a test user, post a post then go to delete it there's a checkbox 'Delete Permanently:'

So there are a couple of things that I need help with if some kind soul could help (apart from the wrong reporting of the amount of posts/topics)

1) I'd like to turn off all aspects of soft deleting (I can always turn them on in the future if I feel they are needed).
2) I'd like to turn off any users ability to send any emails to each other only allowing the board to send emails.

It's the very latest shiny new, responsive (I note) phpBB forum virgin 3.2.2 and it's rather impressive!

Thanks from ian

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Re: 3.2.2 reports wrong amount of posts/topics & how to remove soft delete?

Post by janus_zonstraal » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:12 pm

Here you find the permissions
Screenshot-2018-3-17 Global moderators.png

2)And here the email settings
Screenshot-2018-3-17 Email settings.png
Sorry! My English is bat ;) !!!

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Re: 3.2.2 reports wrong amount of posts/topics & how to remove soft delete?

Post by stevemaury » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:21 pm

Where are the posts phpBB comes with (Your first forum - Welcome to phpBB)? Also, do you have any forums that don't show?
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Re: 3.2.2 reports wrong amount of posts/topics & how to remove soft delete?

Post by IanMc » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:31 pm

I changed the names of the first category with the first forum to Category = Any Things, forum = CatchAll
then copied the permissions as I created the new categories and new forums.
I don't have any that aren't showing.

I deleted the original first welcome post, turns out it wasn't deleted after all and to my surprise there was an empty post with 'this was deleted by....'
somehow I forget how, i managed to 'hard delete' it.

I have 11 categories each has 1 forum.

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Re: 3.2.2 reports wrong amount of posts/topics & how to remove soft delete?

Post by IanMc » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:34 pm

This is turning out to be a lot more complicated than I at first thought, I thought it would simply be a matter of someone saying 'yes just tweek that setting and it turns off the whole soft delete system' but nooooo..... So let us please just concentrate on one problem at a time and I'll do other posts for the other problems (which are not resolved either yet). Thank you.

The Soft Delete System Turn Off Dilemma.

I'm trying to figure out the logic in turning off the whole soft delete thing by altering a permission for a global moderator.
It just doesn't sound right, why would altering a permission of a global moderator turn off the whole soft delete mechanism?

Oh well, I'll try it, here are my steps.
1) log in as Admin and go to the ACP
2) Choose 'Permissions' from the tab at the top
3) Over on the left under 'GLOBAL PERMISSIONS' choose 'Global moderators'
4) At this point you are presented with a complicated screen of two sides Users - Groups
the top parts of these two 'sides' are : Manage users - Manage groups with boxes to show which Users or Groups you'll be managing
under each of which are parts to : Add Users - Add Groups
In my Groups > Manage groups box I have one entry 'Global moderators'
5) if I highlight that then press the button : Edit permissions I get a less complicated screen which says:
Global Moderator Permissions
Global moderators
Role: No role assigned... (should I change this?) and a magic link over on the right called 'Advanced Permissions *' yes with an asterisk, I wonder what that asterisk is for?
6) So I click on this and TADAAA... I get that box up: (please keep reading after the picture)
And let me tell you, it was not easy to come this far with zero instructions!
Image
And as you can see, I've been here before (got the TShirt) and I've
7) changed the 'Can soft delete posts' to 'No' however when I
8) 'Apply permissions' then go back to the board and logon as iantest (just a plain user) go to one of my posts (there is only one in the 'online finds, own videos forum) and hit the X to delete I get the boxes: Delete permanently: & Reason for deletion.

So that didn't work then... despite having a degree in rocket science you need another degree in phpBB forum settings manipulation because after drastically altering the way that the forum works they didn't put in a button 'switch this feature off'

As I said at the start of my post, it just doesn't seem right that to turn off this pesky soft delete system you change a permission of a moderator?
Does that seem right to you?

I mention in step 4 that there is a box over on the left Manage users... this is empty, is this the problem? should I put someone in this box to
have the permissions apply to?

This is now getting so ridiculously complex that electronic components are starting to grow out of my ears :lol:
My brain will soon need to be programmed using PHP :lol:

So despite being really simple (sarcasm) you only have to follow steps 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 this still has not yet worked so I must have performed one of the steps incorrectly so if some kind soul could help I'll give the admin password if you PM me, I can always change it back again when I go live.

Thanks for reading

ian

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Re: 3.2.2 reports wrong amount of posts/topics & how to remove soft delete?

Post by janus_zonstraal » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:45 pm

If a "normal user" can delete his post than you have to set the permissions for the group "registered users" and not for the moderator group.

So go back to the permissions choose the group "registered users" and change the permissions as you want them.
Sorry! My English is bat ;) !!!

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Re: 3.2.2 reports wrong amount of posts/topics & how to remove soft delete?

Post by IanMc » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:00 pm

Ok, I think I'm beginning to understand.
The newer versions of phpBB have this soft delete mechanism built-in and that is how it works now.
But you can make it so that certain groups do not have the ability to 'soft delete' so they only have the ability to 'hard delete' ?
Is that it?

OH BUT that it was that simple Obi Wan....
If you go into the same screen as step 4 in my previous post you see this: (Please keep reading after the picture)
Image
Now firstly I'm thinking, perhaps I'm supposed to somehow move some of those in the 'Add groups' box up to the 'Manage groups' box?
But there does not seem to be any way to do that, however if I highlight the 'Registered users' in the bottom box and click on the 'Add permissions' button (bottom right) i get: (please keep reading after the picture)
Image
Aha! and notice over to the right we have the good old link "Advanced Permissions' this time without the mysterious asterisk so I click on this and I get... drum roll ..... (please keep reading after the picture) Tadaaaa!
Image
We are almost wetting ourselves with exhilaration until we notice .... everything is already set to 'No'
At this point you hear a distant single gun shot as ian goes out into the garden with his revolver.
EXPLETIVE EXPLETIVE EXPLETIVE
Really though, what a pile of CRAP!!!!!

Update, I found that if I change one of the 'No's to a 'Yes' such as 'Can Permanently Delete Posts' then that group (Registered users) magically gets transported to the Manage users box above so I did this for Registered users, New users and Administrators and they all got transported to the box above... didn't make a blind bit of difference though, log on as normal user iantest and go to delete a post and I still get the 'Delete permanently:' and 'Reason for deletion' boxes....
So now that they were in the 'Manage groups' box above I tried altering their permissions there using the Advanced Permissions link with the asterisk, I set them to be able to edit and delete etc. but not soft delete.... no difference, log on as ordinary user, still see boxes when you go to delete.
Last edited by IanMc on Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 3.2.2 reports wrong amount of posts/topics & how to remove soft delete?

Post by janus_zonstraal » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:39 pm

Go to ACP
Choose permisions
Choose Group permissions
Choose the correct group where you want to changes something
Make the right setting.

You are always go to the moderator settings, no need to go there.
You can also read this
https://www.phpbb.com/support/docs/en/3 ... rmissions/
Sorry! My English is bat ;) !!!

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Re: 3.2.2 reports wrong amount of posts/topics & how to remove soft delete?

Post by IanMc » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:54 pm

Ok, I will read this now.

Tell me, have you never had anyone wanting to turn off the soft delete feature?

Does it normally take hours and hours to be able to do it?

You've seen the lengths I've been going through to attempt this, do you think that there have been some who wanted to turn this feature off but simply gave up because it is so complex?

It seems like a good thing to do, nothing gets permanently deleted as a safety net, you'd think that was a good idea and should be the default but what about all the posts that say 'this post was deleted by XYZ' ?
How many of those posts does a user click on before it starts to get old.

you suggested:
Go to ACP
Choose permisions
Choose Group permissions
Choose the correct group where you want to changes something
Make the right setting.

Did that, it seems to be another way to get at the same settings and they are exactly as I've explained previously.

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Re: 3.2.2 reports wrong amount of posts/topics & how to remove soft delete?

Post by janus_zonstraal » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:19 pm

Tell me, have you never had anyone wanting to turn off the soft delete feature?
Ok, I will read this now.
Most people read the Manuel first not after hours of trying.
Or are you a engineer? :lol:
Sorry! My English is bat ;) !!!

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Re: 3.2.2 reports wrong amount of posts/topics & how to remove soft delete?

Post by IanMc » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:27 pm

I think it's amusing when you put it like that but tell me.

What is this forum for?

Why not just have a static webpage with the one answer:

"The answer you require is here: > https://www.phpbb.com/support/docs/en/3 ... rmissions/ "

Or better yet:

"The answer to your question about life, the universe and everything is ...... 42"

The document you refer to was written in 2010 and has absolutely nothing in it about soft delete.
Perhaps your answer could be "what you do is you go to the library and get a book on PHP then after reading that you get a book on MySQL then you should be part way into figuring out why phpBB is not working properly"

Or how about this for an answer? ..... "I don't know"

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Re: 3.2.2 reports wrong amount of posts/topics & how to remove soft delete?

Post by stevemaury » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:51 pm

How to turn off soft delete.

1. Go to the ACP, Permissions tab, Group permissions, Select Registered users from the dropdown.
2. Select type Global moderator permissions from the dropdown and click Go.
3. Click Advanced permissions, Post actions tab, Can soft delete posts, Never, Submit.
4. Done.

There are many features which rely on permissions for their implementation. This makes the software more granular and versatile. There is not an On/Off switch for every feature.

There is no need to know php or MySQL to run a phpBB board. Permissions may came and go, but the article you were referred to applies to implementing permissions, regardless of what permission may be involved.
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Re: 3.2.2 reports wrong amount of posts/topics & how to remove soft delete?

Post by IanMc » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:19 pm

I thank you all for your help.
Working 7 hours on one problem today and several hours on the same problem yesterday will make ian slightly grumpy :D
Please forgive me.

So here we are before I make the change you suggest:
Image

As you can see it was set to 'No' but it wasn't set to 'Never'
Here it is after the change that you suggested:
Image

I of course then clicked on Apply permissions and got the popup message that permissions have been applied.
I then log out as admin and log in as iantest normal registered user:
Image
I then go to the message that iantest made originally....
Image
and I click on the delete button and get this:
Image
So something's not right, but let me delete it then make a new post then go to delete that one and see if those boxes are still there.
Ok, it's actually deleted the post permanently it would seem even though it displayed the two boxes ...
Image

Making another post cunningly called Test2 and see what happens when I go to delete it....

Image

Ok, it seems that if I click on Yes it will delete the post permanently but it is displaying these boxes... is this a bug?

I don't know if this behavior was happening when I had the setting set to 'No' instead of 'Never' (what's the difference?) I didn't try it.
It seems that the logic is now correct but obviously it should not be displaying boxes asking if you want to delete permanently and what the reason for deleting is.

Ha! I just thought, 'never' could be a programmer opt out clause, irate customer: "but it deleted it!" programmer: "but did you have it set to 'never'? because No doesn't necessarily mean ever it 'can' mean 'perhaps' " :)

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Re: 3.2.2 reports wrong amount of posts/topics & how to remove soft delete?

Post by stevemaury » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:32 pm

It displays a box saying delete permanently as a confirmation and to alert the user that the deletion is permanent. Even before soft delete there was a confirmation message. If you find that message inappropriate, you can always change it by editing the language file.

The difference between No and Never, as well as lots of other useful information about the Permissions system, is contained in the article to which you were previously linked.
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Re: 3.2.2 reports wrong amount of posts/topics & how to remove soft delete?

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:39 pm

one of the things you learn in the permissions documentation for phpbb is that there is this:

a yes in one group or set of permissions overrides a no for that particular permission in a different group or set of permissions. a never in any group or set of permissions overrides a yes in any group or set of permissions.

now, why you are still seeing that page with the options when you have set never, I have no idea. I have never seen that but I have never had the soft delete turned on. I don't believe it is turned on by default when you first install.


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