Manage report/denial reasons.

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joeyb+1
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Manage report/denial reasons.

Post by joeyb+1 »

I don't want to sound critical - but in this particular case I feel a degree of criticism is warranted.

Since phpbb 3.0, managing the report/denial reasons has been a right pain in the A$$.

There still exists no logically simple way to add or manage report/denial reasons for the moderation queue.

The key issue appears to be one of localization (language).
I would support the argument that most board installs do not utilize multiple language packs, but those that do would absolutely have a serious grasp on those languages and the translations of report denial reasons.

There are a number of issues I would like to request clarification on:

1. Tthe manage report/denial reasons exists in the SYSTEM tab of the ACP. Why is it located there? It really should not be there. I keep forgetting where to look for it, and I've been using this software since 2006. It's not something that is used often due to the difficulty associated with it's actual use. The logical place for it to belong is in the POSTING tab, as the managing of report/denial reasons is directly related to posting.

2. There is no way to add a custom message without manually editing the language file. In this day and age, it really isn't acceptable to ignore this kind of functionality by obscuring access to the function via forced deep-dive file editing. Admins & mods are not always coders, nor do they always have access to the phpbb filesystem.... Certainly it is not wise to allow filesystem access to a board admin/mod. You don't hand the keys to your car to a complete stranger...

3. Simplicity of use versus functionality. This 'feature' has been around in phpbb for such a long time, it puzzles me as to why it has not been properly refined. The ability to simply add a report/denial reason without having to manually edit a language file is not 'simple'. Not only that, but no help topic exists for this subject in the online help files or within the install.
The extent of help for this function is limited to this from within phpbb install:

System tab>Manage report/denial reasons>
"Here you can manage the reasons used in reports and denial messages when disapproving posts. There is one default reason (marked with a *) you are not able to remove, this reason is normally used for custom messages if no reason fits."

You can add a reason, but it will not be visible to anyone until the reason is localized (requires filesystem access and editing skills which is a questionable ask for a moderator or board admin)

"Reason has not been localised. If you want to provide the localised form, specify the correct key from the language files report reasons section."

That is the entire extent of help for the topic.


I made sure to search the manage report denial reasons and language files report reasons section in phpbb online help and nothing exists for any of these terms. Not only is the documentation on this function poor, but this is a function which has existed for such a long time - really, it is poor form to not at least provide a more thorough explanation on how to edit the language file, or why it must be done manually, instead of having the reasons stored in the DB.

I went looking for a MOD - nothing for 3.2.2 So each time a moderator wants to add a denial reason and keep it in the dropdown, the language file has to be manually edited.

It would be nice if something more constructive could be provided in terms of ease of use and documentation of this function.

If someone has a resource that complies with the aforementioned search terms, but does not include those search terms, could they please provide the information, or at the very least a link to the exact information required to clearly instruct admins on the use of the function.

Your assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

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Brf
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Re: Manage report/denial reasons.

Post by Brf »

joeyb+1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:32 am
I went looking for a MOD - nothing for 3.2.2
PhpBB 3.2 does not have mods. It has extensions. If you are asking for an extension, you should be asking in the Extension Request forum.
If you are looking to change a basic function of phpBB, try the Ideas forum.

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janus_zonstraal
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Re: Manage report/denial reasons.

Post by janus_zonstraal »

1) you can replace the module to the posting tab if you want (module management)
Sorry! My English is bat ;) !!!

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Re: Manage report/denial reasons.

Post by AmigoJack »

joeyb+1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:32 am
I keep forgetting where to look for it
You make it sound like browsing thru all ACP categories is a difficult task. Create a new category wherever you want and add modules which you keep forgetting there. As long as the ACP isn't searchable this would be the best solution to you.

joeyb+1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:32 am
with it's actual use
What do you mean "with it is actual use"?

joeyb+1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:32 am
2. There is
You might want to start using the LIST-BBCode for proper formattings.

joeyb+1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:32 am
In this day and age, it really isn't acceptable to ignore this kind of functionality by obscuring access to the function via forced deep-dive file editing.
In this day and age editing files should be no difficult task for people anymore. On top you can always do that locally first to see if the outcome is as wanted, before uploading it. Back in 2011 I found out on how to do it by simply looking at one of the reason texts and then searching all files for a phrase of that. From seeing the existing texts in /language/*/mcp.php it was trivial to add my own ones.

joeyb+1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:32 am
Admins & mods are not always coders, nor do they always have access to the phpbb filesystem.... Certainly it is not wise to allow filesystem access to a board admin/mod.
Administrators and moderators are different for many reasons and have no tasks in common. Editing report reasons is not a moderator's task, and using them is not an administrator's task.

joeyb+1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:32 am
(requires filesystem access and editing skills which is a questionable ask for a moderator or board admin)
File access is subject to the board owner, not necessarily any administrator.

joeyb+1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:32 am
instead of having the reasons stored in the DB
Accessing files always needs less time and memory resources than querying it thru a DBMS. When your board starts getting bigger you want more file and less DB access.

joeyb+1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:32 am
It would be nice if something more constructive could be provided in terms of ease of use and documentation of this function.
For 3.0.x I gave MOD instructions on making the ACP seachable, both here and area51. But I agree that other parts of the ACP (I think the custom profile fields) have the feature of setting text per installed langauge (without touching files), so one could think about redesigning report reasons as well. For me, however, they almost never change, hence touching files for that happened only twice in 8 years, so sacrifying modification ease to performance would not meet my interests.


janus_zonstraal wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:43 am
you can replace the module
You can relocate/move any module to anywhere, and you can also display the same module in multiple places (just as the ACP overview already does). Replacing has a different meaning.
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Affin wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:51 am
The problem is probably not my English but you do not want to understand correctly.
...
We will not come anybody anyway, nevertheless, it's best to shit this.

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Re: Manage report/denial reasons.

Post by Privet »

The fact is - phpbb software works incorrectly.
I tried to modify reason "Spam" but it does not work as expected. Nothing was changed. I go again to an editor form and somehow there is a new text. I tried to purge cache. Result is still the same.

Guys this is a serious flaw. I am surprised that phpbb team does not care.

Fortunately I am a professional programmer and I could find and fix this problem but... this is still a flaw.
Thanks,
Privet.

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Re: Manage report/denial reasons.

Post by david63 »

Privet wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:19 pm
Fortunately I am a professional programmer and I could find and fix this problem but... this is still a flaw.
I presume that you have reported this in the Bug Tracker and created a PR for the fix.
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Re: Manage report/denial reasons.

Post by warmweer »

Privet wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:19 pm
Fortunately I am a professional programmer and I could find and fix this problem but... this is still a flaw.
Do you also have difficulties in finding shirts with sufficiently wide collars?
We should embrace problems, without which there wouldn't be any solutions.

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Re: Manage report/denial reasons.

Post by Privet »

david63 wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:42 pm
Privet wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:19 pm
Fortunately I am a professional programmer and I could find and fix this problem but... this is still a flaw.
I presume that you have reported this in the Bug Tracker and created a PR for the fix.
I hope they know what I know. :)
This is Support forum and fist post is here for half of year. Couple of new versions were already issued.
I hope you know what I mean.
Thanks,
Privet.

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stevemaury
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Re: Manage report/denial reasons.

Post by stevemaury »

This is an Open Source software project. If you have a fix for what you perceive to be a fault, the way Open Source works is, you report that fault and provide a solution if your are able.
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Re: Manage report/denial reasons.

Post by Privet »

stevemaury wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:21 pm
This is an Open Source software project. If you have a fix for what you perceive to be a fault, the way Open Source works is, you report that fault and provide a solution if your are able.
I totally agree with you but I did not create a final solution. This is just a way to make it working. I edited <root>/language/en/mcp.php lines 434-437 in v.3.2.4.

To make a real fix I have to:
1. Setup some standard version of forum.
2. Learn or at least review all coding requirements.
3. Consult with someone why it is done in files bu not in db (I suppose just because all language specific setup is done in files. I think that is wrong approach because this option must be modifiable from ACP).
4. Write a code.
5. Get through proper QA process and finally issue the code.

May be all that not as hard as it sounds like but I have my own projects and phpbb project is little bit away from my interests. I appreciate phpbb team work. That is why I am using it for at least 15 years. I even have written for myself couple of phpbb mods for old versions and extensions (post history and modified ban form) but I really do not have a time for something else.

BTW I understand that it much easier to work with properly reported bugs from professional QA team but some bugs are really trivial like this one. Many of your customers not familiar with proper QA process. Some of them lazy enough to go through official form in the case when they are not sure if this is a real bug. Why phpbb team ignores such signals? Test case seems to be quite simple. It must be phpbb team the most interest. Right?
Thanks,
Privet.

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Re: Manage report/denial reasons.

Post by RMcGirr83 »

(I suppose just because all language specific setup is done in files. I think that is wrong approach because this option must be modifiable from ACP)
Being a professional programmer, how would you suggest for the multitude of languages, and the multitude of languages some forums use that phpBB supports, this would be accomplished?
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Re: Manage report/denial reasons.

Post by 3Di »

@Rich

I see what does Privet means I guess, something like this:

https://github.com/phpBB-Studio/DateTop ... ttings#pms

You can select a language for the private message. Choices are based on your installed board languages.
This way you can provide a translated private message for each language available on your board.

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Re: Manage report/denial reasons.

Post by Privet »

RMcGirr83 wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:41 pm
(I suppose just because all language specific setup is done in files. I think that is wrong approach because this option must be modifiable from ACP)
Being a professional programmer, how would you suggest for the multitude of languages, and the multitude of languages some forums use that phpBB supports, this would be accomplished?
Equation with two variables. :)
3Di wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:06 am
@Rich

I see what does Privet means I guess, something like this:

https://github.com/phpBB-Studio/DateTop ... ttings#pms
...
Looks good for me.
Thanks,
Privet.

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