Forum roles and their permissions

Get help with installation and running phpBB 3.2.x here. Please do not post bug reports, feature requests, or extension related questions here.
Post Reply
User avatar
P_I
Registered User
Posts: 1035
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:35 pm
Location: Calgary
Contact:

Forum roles and their permissions

Post by P_I »

I thought I understood Group forum permissions and how to apply them but I'm not getting the result I expect on one of my boards.

I have an Open group that is intended to provide group members a sub-set of my boards forums, i.e. imagine a "3.2.x only" group here on phpBB. In the Group forum permissions, I check the "All forums" box and hit submit. I see the list of my forums and the roles assigned. Most are set to "No role assigned", which is to be expected.

Say I want to make a specific forum invisible to the group. I thought the answer was to set the role to "No access", the tool tip says "Role description Can neither see nor access the forum."

However, when I test the permissions of a member in that group, the specified forum continues to appear in their forum listing and I can navigate into the forum and read posts. How is this "Can neither see nor access the forum."?

So I double-check my work via View forum-based permissions (Permissions mask section). I select the specified forum, then on the next screen I lookup user and hit the View permissions button. The mask table that displays shows that for the group that I set to "No accesss", the setting is No. Since the setting for Registered users is Yes, the Trace result is Yes, which explains why the member is still seeing the forum.

Am I misunderstanding how this all should work or am I missing something. Is it possible that the default settings for "No access" are not correct, perhaps since this board has been updated and upgraded many times, it started as a phpBB 2.x board.
Normal people… believe that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain’t broke, it doesn’t have enough features yet. – Scott Adams

User avatar
warmweer
Jr. Extension Validator
Posts: 3903
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 6:34 am
Location: Van Allen Bel ... gium

Re: Forum roles and their permissions

Post by warmweer »

P_I wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:20 pm
Am I misunderstanding how this all should work or am I missing something. Is it possible that the default settings for "No access" are not correct,
No access applies to that particular group-forum, so the permission setting has to be NO so that it can be overridden by the permission setting of another group in that same forum (a YES).
If you don't want any member of that group to have access to that forum, irrespective of other group membership, then you would have to use a NEVER.
We should embrace problems, without which there wouldn't be any solutions.

User avatar
P_I
Registered User
Posts: 1035
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:35 pm
Location: Calgary
Contact:

Re: Forum roles and their permissions

Post by P_I »

warmweer wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:34 pm
P_I wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:20 pm
Am I misunderstanding how this all should work or am I missing something. Is it possible that the default settings for "No access" are not correct,
No access applies to that particular group-forum, so the permission setting has to be NO so that it can be overridden by the permission setting of another group in that same forum (a YES).
If you don't want any member of that group to have access to that forum, irrespective of other group membership, then you would have to use a NEVER.
Thanks for the quick reply.

But that doesn't seem to match the Role description text for No access which tells me "Can neither see nor access the forum". That seems inconsistent to me, leading to my confusion.

Since I may want to apply this setting to multiple forums, I guess the solution is to create a create a new role with NEVER permissions.
Normal people… believe that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain’t broke, it doesn’t have enough features yet. – Scott Adams

User avatar
warmweer
Jr. Extension Validator
Posts: 3903
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 6:34 am
Location: Van Allen Bel ... gium

Re: Forum roles and their permissions

Post by warmweer »

P_I wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:43 pm
But that doesn't seem to match the Role description text for No access which tells me "Can neither see nor access the forum". That seems inconsistent to me, leading to my confusion.
It's not inconsistent since that is applicable to that group.
user A, member of that group and not of member of any group which has a YES, nor having the user permission set to YES: will have a total permission of NO, but once that user is in a group with a YES (e.g. Registered Users), that YES will override the NO.
A NEVER for that group will override any YES from another group or user permission setting.

In the beginning it seems strange but use the permission mask a few times and you'll get the hang of it.
We should embrace problems, without which there wouldn't be any solutions.

User avatar
P_I
Registered User
Posts: 1035
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:35 pm
Location: Calgary
Contact:

Re: Forum roles and their permissions

Post by P_I »

warmweer wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:56 pm
In the beginning it seems strange but use the permission mask a few times and you'll get the hang of it.
True, but why should I have to test out permission masks. Shouldn't the 'role description' be enough to understand what will happen, because that is what I expected.

Stepping back and looking through the Forum roles page listing all the roles, perhaps the clue is in:

Newly Registered User Access
A role for members of the special newly registered users group; contains NEVER permissions to lock features for new users.

I guess the lack of NEVER is any of the other roles implies the underlying permissions for all the others is set to NO and therefore admins must understand that multiple roles might be involved (masked together).

With this new understanding and after checking the permission mark I'm seeing how in practice this works. But from my perspective it seems that the text within the various ACP->Permissions pages are lacking something that makes this clear at each stage that an admin might change something.

Mark this solved, but I reserve the right to open a ticket to improve the text and/or documentation once I give it some further thought.
Normal people… believe that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain’t broke, it doesn’t have enough features yet. – Scott Adams

User avatar
Lumpy Burgertushie
Registered User
Posts: 67231
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 3:11 am
Contact:

Re: Forum roles and their permissions

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie »

another thought...
if you are testing your settings by using the other user's permissions then you still have your own permissions as well. therefore , your permissions would be overriding the permissions for the user you are using to test.

I have never understood the point of this function the way it works.

point is, create a test user. log out as admin and back in as that test user and then test your permission settings for that user.



robert
I'm baaaaaccckkkk. still doing work on donation basis. PM your needs.

Premium phpBB 3.3 Styles by PlanetStyles.net

If nobody is in the forest, does a tree really fall?

User avatar
P_I
Registered User
Posts: 1035
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:35 pm
Location: Calgary
Contact:

Re: Forum roles and their permissions

Post by P_I »

Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:21 pm
another thought...
if you are testing your settings by using the other user's permissions then you still have your own permissions as well. therefore , your permissions would be overriding the permissions for the user you are using to test.

I have never understood the point of this function the way it works.

point is, create a test user. log out as admin and back in as that test user and then test your permission settings for that user.



robert
Thanks. I've double-checked it using a test user.

I also maintain a localhost testbed that uses my production database so I can test out these nuances before applying them on my production server.

I've used the test permissions functionality enough to understand how it works and the limitations where the admins permissions still apply.
Normal people… believe that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain’t broke, it doesn’t have enough features yet. – Scott Adams

User avatar
Brf
Support Team Member
Support Team Member
Posts: 51931
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 7:47 pm
Location: {postrow.POSTER_FROM}
Contact:

Re: Forum roles and their permissions

Post by Brf »

At the bottom of my phpBB3 Permissions, written 10 years ago, I suggest changing those Nos to Nevers on the No Access role:
The No Access Forum Role would be more useful with "Never" permissions than its current "No’s". Edit the No Access Forum Role and change "Can see forum" and "Can read forum" from "No" to "Never". This will allow you to use this role to block access to a forum for a small group.

User avatar
P_I
Registered User
Posts: 1035
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:35 pm
Location: Calgary
Contact:

Re: Forum roles and their permissions

Post by P_I »

Brf wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:07 pm
At the bottom of my phpBB3 Permissions, written 10 years ago, I suggest changing those Nos to Nevers on the No Access role:
The No Access Forum Role would be more useful with "Never" permissions than its current "No’s". Edit the No Access Forum Role and change "Can see forum" and "Can read forum" from "No" to "Never". This will allow you to use this role to block access to a forum for a small group.
Thanks, very helpful link and article. Bookmarked it for future reference.
Normal people… believe that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain’t broke, it doesn’t have enough features yet. – Scott Adams

User avatar
Mick
Support Team Member
Support Team Member
Posts: 22061
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:49 am
Location: Watching cricket.

Re: Forum roles and their permissions

Post by Mick »

You’ve been a serious phpBB user for all these years and survived without knowledge of Brfs ‘phpBB3 Permissions’ KB? Power to you :lol:

Have a general rummage through the knowledge base, there’s quite a few gems like that one. Even some of the older ones are relevant.
"The more connected we get the more alone we become" - Kyle Broflovski

Please read: “Am I In The Right Place?” before posting.

Post Reply

Return to “[3.2.x] Support Forum”