[DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

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david63
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Re: [DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by david63 »

Hanakin wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:43 pm
Are we stuck in our ways for what a forum is and should be.
On a point of terminology I assume you are referring to the whole board and not an individual forum.

No we are not stuck in our ways as a conscious decision was made way back in the early days as to the way that phpBB would be. Perhaps a better question would be "Should phpBB change direction as to the way it functions?" I suspect that there would be so many answers to that question covering every possible variation that it would be impossible to arrive at a consensus but the ultimate decision for that rests with phpBB's Management Team.
Hanakin wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:43 pm
How it looks and functions?
These are subjective. I suspect that I am representative of most members of this board when I say there some aspects of phpBB that could be improved but that most of them do not present any problems. As for "look and feel" that is customisable so not of major concern.
Hanakin wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:43 pm
I would like to ask for some of your opinions though given the scope of the changes made to the blizzard forums.
I don't know what the Blizzard board was like before any changes so I am unable to offer any opinion but you have to bear in mind that Blizzard is a public company with 10k employees and a $7.5 billion revenue stream - totally at the opposite end of the spectrum to phpBB.

I am not totally opposed to change where it is necessary (although that can sometimes be questionable!) but I do not agree with change for change's sake just because it seems to be a good idea.

For what you are talking about the whole of phpBB would need re-writing "from the ground up" - perhaps it is the time for that - I don't know, but what I do know is that at this moment in time phpBB does not have the resources to achieve that.

If we are not careful here we will find ourselves in a "tail wagging the dog" situation (in fact we already are to some extent!) and the one overriding factor that appears to be ignored is who is phpBB aimed at? - and that answer is the end user and in my experience the majority of end users do not want change and are basically happy with the product out there now - yes I know that some want more features but they are possible with extensions.
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Re: [DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by mrgoldy »

The thing is, in the end Chameleon is going to be the 'default style' for phpBB. Which, in my opinion, should just be a 'standard' lay out. Modernized and nice, don't get me wrong, but it should be clear for everyone to understand and get around with. Young and old, experienced and inexperienced.

I understand that this might not end up being your personal ideal view of the style, but perhaps you can make an additional edition. Much like the 'prosilver Special Edition'. That way you can also assure that the base style is fully extendable and customisable.

---

On a different train of thought; It might also be possible to create some actual settings for styles to use? Currently there are I don't know how many settings in the ACP, but (close to) none are about actual appearences of the board. Some determine if an element/functionality shows up, but nothing determines how things should look.

What would be the downside of adding a couple of settings that can be used by style authors? Either with a note for the Administrators that the implementation may vary depending on the style. Or require style authors to include some style.cfg file (which some styles already use) where they define which settings they support. This file can then be read by the core and displayed in the ACP, to prevent confusion with administrators.

Examples of those settings could be;
- Display the miniprofile on the left / right
- Use "Icon only" buttons
- Use the "night mode" (dark vs light variations)
- Use grid view (grid vs list view)
- ... Et cetera.
But I am not a style author myself, nor familar with it, so can't really tell what those settings should be nor if it's feasible.
Just a thought. :thinking:

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Hanakin
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Re: [DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by Hanakin »

mrgoldy most of those examples are more user preference settings. Not ACP level settings. The question for that would be weather it should be stored in the DB/Local Storage/Cookies. Also keep in mind that Chamelon is not nessecarily the base style its more accurately the root style library. We can easily release multiple base styles that leverage different configurations extremely easily. You could have a PS grid/PS Dark version with little to no change to the source files.

But what we are really getting at here is what is nessecary how it is and what can be improved upon as this is the best time to address it at the individual component level. I will post some examples I have been working on later as I am at work at the moment and do not have access to codepen.

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Dan Stylez
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Re: [DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by Dan Stylez »

I'm not a fan of the post slider on the forum Hanakin linked to, Flarum has a similar idea, https://discuss.flarum.org/d/21101-demos-come-to-flarum It's pretty fiddly.

You could probably do with starting a separate topic to ask people if there is anything they've seen on other sites that they'd like to have on their own forums, you'd probably get a lot of good suggestions there.

One thing I've heard a lot over the years from people who like to just install the software and use the style it comes with is that a built in dark version of the default style would be handy.
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Re: [DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by Hanakin »

Dan Stylez wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:05 pm
One thing I've heard a lot over the years from people who like to just install the software and use the style it comes with is that a built in dark version of the default style would be handy.
Already planned ;)

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Hanakin
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Re: [DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by Hanakin »

as promised here are some examples of components inspired by the post above

alternate topic rows: https://codepen.io/hanakin/pen/deNPVZ?editors=1100
page navigation: https://codepen.io/hanakin/pen/jBNdyj

neither of these are finalized or set in stone, just examples of components inspired by the blizzard forum changes.

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Re: [DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by rxu »

What about extensions? Will there be template events or some completely different approach is planned?

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Re: [DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by Hanakin »

Not really in the scope of this conversation as we are not anywhere near that stage yet. However yes the current plan is to have events but the implementation may be need to be tweaked to allow for more flexibility and control. Again though it will still need a through discussion on area51 when that time comes.

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Re: [DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by Meis2M »

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Hanakin
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Re: [DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by Hanakin »

I am working now on getting the new icon system in place. But also working plan on pushing out the next big update with a lot of improvements and changes reworked such as reworked JS, colors, spacing systems as well as overhaul/improvements of several components and adding a few more. It will also contain the mock-up for the topic page, which is what I am working on now. As always none of it is hard set in stone.

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Re: [DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by Gumboots »

Just looking through this. Seems interesting. I'm not worried about the look at the moment, but regarding this:
Dan Stylez wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:05 pm
I'm not a fan of the post slider on the forum Hanakin linked to, Flarum has a similar idea, https://discuss.flarum.org/d/21101-demos-come-to-flarum It's pretty fiddly.
I hope you're not planning on worshipping Discourse and its endless-scrolling-with-fiddly-slider. If you are, would strongly suggest a user option for standard pagination as well. I can use Discourse if I have to, hell I can use any interface if I have to, but Discourse is definitely not something I prefer to use (emergencies only, IMHO).

ETA: While I think of it, would also suggest having common functionality top and bottom. "Unread posts" is probably one of the most heavily used interface links, but is only available in one locations, hidden inside a drop menu that has to be clicked to open it. It's a good candidate for permanent exposure at the top and the bottom of the page.

Which I can obviously code myself if I want to, but I do think it's worth considering as default.

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Re: [DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by mario831 »

Sorry, but this is ridiculous! need something really revolutionary :shock:

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Re: [DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by david63 »

mario831 wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:51 pm
Sorry, but this is ridiculous! need something really revolutionary :shock:
And your ideas would be what?
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Re: [DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by Hanakin »

Currently plan on having an always displayed nav overlay. The infinite scrolling would be controlled by click and Ajax. Rather than on scroll like discourse. Not sure if it will be a dual nav top and bottom or just bottom. Based on your suggestion relating to the quick nav which is in the sidebar now we would need both.

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Re: [DEV] [OFFICIAL] CODENAME: Chameleon

Post by Gumboots »

So no chance of standard pagination? And a permanent overlay? Sounds gruesome.

Ok, if you're determined on that course I can see the nav being customisable without much drama. How hard would it be for someone who wanted standard pages to get it? Is that a "recode the entire back end and pray to your preferred dieties" or is it "half a day and a bit of fun"?

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