Your opinions on TPB trial (The pirate Bay)

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Green Light
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Your opinions on TPB trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by Green Light » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:14 pm

What are you opinions on The pirate bay trial?
For those who don't know what the pirate bay is, it's similar to a search engine for torrents.
Torrent files are small files that allow peers to connect to each other and share files that they have. A person who creates a torrent and broadcasts the files online. People connect to that and download from the original creator, once they have the file they begin seeding (hosting)
How TPB works, people upload torrent files to the pirate bay. (Not the files, but the torrent file, which tells the torrent program how to retrieve the files from other peers)
TPB classifies these torrents in their database and when someone is looking for Fedora 10 (linux)
they will get the torrent files and download that small file, then run it through a torrent program which will then download the files from another person. So no copyrighted are hosted @ the pirate bay.

So pretty much TPB has done nothing wrong, and companies want to shut them down.

What are your opinions on this trial?
**note don't post links or talk about warez in this topic, this topic is about The pirate bay trial.[only]**
Last edited by Green Light on Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:58 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Techie-Micheal
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Re: Your opions on the TBH trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by Techie-Micheal » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:34 pm

But they have offered a place for the illicit activity to occur. I don't know what Swedish law says, so I'm only going on what US law(s) is/are, but assisting the illicit activity places you in as much hot water as the person who actually committed the crime. This is why those who assist in crimes are accessories, because they allowed the activity to happen.

The Merriam-Webster dictionary agrees with me:
Merriam-Webster wrote: a person not actually or constructively present but contributing as an assistant or instigator to the commission of an offense —called also accessory before the fact b: a person who knowing that a crime has been committed aids or shelters the offender with intent to defeat justice —called also accessory after the fact
From what I can see, this is exactly what TPB is doing; they are protecting those who wish to commit the actual offenses.
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Re: Your opions on the TBH trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by Brf » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:51 pm

Sure.
It is just like if you advertised your home as a place for other people to sell drugs. Even though you yourself are not selling the drugs, you are inviting someone else there to do it, so you would be just as guilty.

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Re: Your opions on the TBH trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by A_O_C » Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:40 pm

Ok, so where is the hosting comapny (who hosts the site), the electric company (for providing electricity to the host hosting the site), the internet backbone comapny (for providing the internet backbone to the host), the HVAC comapny (for providing the ACs to the host), etc, etc, etc? At what point do we say "they werent involved"? This is why I disagree that there should be accessories to a crime. The criminal commited it, not you (or anyone else).

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Re: Your opions on the TBH trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by Techie-Micheal » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:12 pm

A_O_C wrote:Ok, so where is the hosting comapny (who hosts the site), the electric company (for providing electricity to the host hosting the site), the internet backbone comapny (for providing the internet backbone to the host), the HVAC comapny (for providing the ACs to the host), etc, etc, etc? At what point do we say "they werent involved"? This is why I disagree that there should be accessories to a crime. The criminal commited it, not you (or anyone else).
None of those companies gave people the place to do the filesharing. TPB did. Not me, not you.
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Re: Your opions on the TBH trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by A_O_C » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:32 pm

The host is hosting the site TPB is on. I would think that at least they would be brought in. If my hosting company found out that I was hosting a site with that content, they would shut me down. If they wouldnt be brought into a lawsuit against me, why should they care then? Why is it against the TOS? Just throwing things out there to think about.

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Re: Your opions on the TBH trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by Techie-Micheal » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:37 pm

A_O_C wrote:The host is hosting the site TPB is on. I would think that at least they would be brought in. If my hosting company found out that I was hosting a site with that content, they would shut me down. If they wouldnt be brought into a lawsuit against me, why should they care then? Why is it against the TOS? Just throwing things out there to think about.
I'm not saying I disagree with you on that, but I do disagree with your earlier statement about passing the buck to the HVAC company, the backbone company, etc. They provided the parts, TPB put the parts together to create something that in my book makes them accessories. It was their choice to build the site and protect those who are breaking the law, not the HVAC company, the security guard company, and so on.
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Re: Your opions on the TBH trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by A_O_C » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:42 pm

Ok, lets shift gears. They built a site. TPB (although we all now what its about) has no control over what users upload to their site. Did TPB have an obligation to remove it when it was found? Yes. That still doesnt mean they are 100% responsible (maybe 50% IMO).

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Re: Your opions on the TBH trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by Techie-Micheal » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:46 pm

A_O_C wrote:Ok, lets shift gears. They built a site. TPB (although we all now what its about) has no control over what users upload to their site. Did TPB have an obligation to remove it when it was found? Yes. That still doesnt mean they are 100% responsible (maybe 50% IMO).
That's the problem, they built the site specifically to allow others to commit the crimes. It isn't as though I create a benign site and someone sticks something questionable up, TPB created the site for the sole purpose of questionable activity. Then when it came to them being responsible and taking things down, they were extremely verbose about refusing to be responsible.

I'm going to fall back on my law enforcement education here, but I'll try to explain myself as best as I can.

There's something called the Crime Triangle. This Crime Triangle has three parts (duh :P). The first is called Target. The second is called Opportunity. The third is called Desire, or for the purposes of this discussion, Intent.

First let's look at those do the filesharing. Who is their target? Those whose software, music, videos, etc. they want to take and infringe on their copyrights. Opportunity? TPB provides the opportunity to share the files. That leaves the desire, or intent. Their intent was to infringe upon copyrights.

Now let's look at TPB. Who is their target? Those who infringe upon copyrights of others. Their opportunity? The opportunity was created by themselves, they wrote the software (and arguably, as I admitted above, partially provided by the hosting provider). Now the intent. Their intent was to provide a safe haven for those who do the actual filesharing, unlike someone who created a site for other purposes and was compromised or had a misbehaving member.

See how it interweaves? TPB is very much culpable.
Last edited by Techie-Micheal on Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your opions on the TBH trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by A_O_C » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:49 pm

Good point. It will be interesting to see what the courts do (since they arent hosted in the US). :D

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Re: Your opions on the TBH trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by EXreaction » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:38 pm

They are about as guilty as gun manufacturers are for gun related crimes and murders.

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Re: Your opions on the TBH trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by Dog Cow » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:39 pm

I've been watching this case, and I find it amusing how the references to Google are made, about how you can find torrents on Google. But then again, Goooogle isn't all about torrents and all of that.

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Re: Your opions on the TBH trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by Techie-Micheal » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:54 pm

EXreaction wrote:They are about as guilty as gun manufacturers are for gun related crimes and murders.
I thought intelligent discussion was required.
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Re: Your opions on the TBH trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by Anon » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:58 pm

Techie-Micheal wrote:There's something called the Crime Triangle. This Crime Triangle has three parts (duh :P). The first is called Target. The second is called Opportunity. The third is called Desire, or for the purposes of this discussion, Intent.

First let's look at those do the filesharing. Who is their target? Those whose software, music, videos, etc. they want to take and infringe on their copyrights. Opportunity? TPB provides the opportunity to share the files. That leaves the desire, or intent. Their intent was to infringe upon copyrights.

Now let's look at TPB. Who is their target? Those who infringe upon copyrights of others. Their opportunity? The opportunity was created by themselves, they wrote the software (and arguably, as I admitted above, partially provided by the hosting provider). Now the intent. Their intent was to provide a safe haven for those who do the actual filesharing, unlike someone who created a site for other purposes and was compromised or had a misbehaving member.

See how it interweaves? TPB is very much culpable.
Let's just say that Bentley or someone else creates a car that is specifically for drug dealers / gang leaders / anyone else interested. It has all the features a drug dealer would want, and they openly advertise it as being for that purpose.

Their target? High-wealth, high-profile criminals.
Their opportunity? They can make cars.
Their intent? To make money from their target by selling a them a car which could be used for criminal activity.

It fits perfectly into your crime triangle, but nobody would seriously suggest that Bently would be responsible for drug deals that go on that involve their cars.

Or another example. A corner shop sells bottled water. Their target? Those who drink bottled water. Their opportunity? They have space in their shop to put bottled water and the means to purchase it in bulk. Their intent? To make money from selling bottled water.

Just because it fits into a crime triangle doesn't mean it's any more or less a crime.

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Re: Your opions on the TBH trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by Techie-Micheal » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:11 pm

Anon wrote:Let's just say that Bentley or someone else creates a car that is specifically for drug dealers / gang leaders / anyone else interested. It has all the features a drug dealer would want, and they openly advertise it as being for that purpose.

Their target? High-wealth, high-profile criminals.
Their opportunity? They can make cars.
Their intent? To make money from their target by selling a them a car which could be used for criminal activity.

It fits perfectly into your crime triangle, but nobody would seriously suggest that Bently would be responsible for drug deals that go on that involve their cars.

Or another example. A corner shop sells bottled water. Their target? Those who drink bottled water. Their opportunity? They have space in their shop to put bottled water and the means to purchase it in bulk. Their intent? To make money from selling bottled water.

Just because it fits into a crime triangle doesn't mean it's any more or less a crime.
Except that selling bottled water does not make a crime. If you don't believe me, go read up on criminal psychology yourself. Here's a start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_c ... iminology)

I don't pull these things out of a hat just to annoy you. There's a reason it is called the Crime Triangle. ;)
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