Your opinions on TPB trial (The pirate Bay)

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wGEric
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Re: Your opinions on TPB trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by wGEric »

Let's make this a little more personal. Say you write a piece of software that isn't OSS. You require people to purchase it before using. This software is how you pay your bills. Someone sticks your software on TPB. You kindly ask TPB to remove it because it is violating the copyright. They refuse. Now what do you do? TPB knows they are aiding in the distribution of illegal material since you informed them. Your sales drop because people can now get your program for free.

What would you do in this case? Would you give up and let TPB win or would you pursue legal action so you can keep earning a living?
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Re: Your opinions on TPB trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by EXreaction »

Time to rethink your distribution model. ;)

If all one gets for their money is access to a program they could get on TPB for free, why would they pay? Support, access to other modifications and styles, upgrades, etc, etc, etc. People will pay for things that save them time and headaches, people who still go for the free version probably wouldn't use it if they had to pay for it.
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Re: Your opinions on TPB trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by Techie-Micheal »

Not everybody needs/wants support, access to upgrades (because those too are posted on TPB et. al.), modifications, styles, etc. So back to your sales dropping. Like it or not most companies still rely on sales being made to get income. People need to realize that and stop trying to bypass it.
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Re: Your opinions on TPB trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by EXreaction »

As I said, those kinds of people probably wouldn't use it if they had to pay for it.
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Re: Your opinions on TPB trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by Techie-Micheal »

EXreaction wrote:As I said, those kinds of people probably wouldn't use it if they had to pay for it.
Then why are they stealing it if they don't need it?
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Re: Your opinions on TPB trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by A_O_C »

They are stealing it because they can. Its not legal, but at this point, I dont think they care.
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Re: Your opinions on TPB trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by ToonArmy »

Techie-Micheal wrote:
EXreaction wrote:As I said, those kinds of people probably wouldn't use it if they had to pay for it.
Then why are they stealing it if they don't need it?
It's not stealing, at least not in the UK.
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Re: Your opinions on TPB trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by Techie-Micheal »

ToonArmy wrote:
Techie-Micheal wrote:
EXreaction wrote:As I said, those kinds of people probably wouldn't use it if they had to pay for it.
Then why are they stealing it if they don't need it?
It's not stealing, at least not in the UK.
Taking a movie/cd/software package/whatever that you didn't pay for isn't stealing?
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Re: Your opinions on TPB trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by ToonArmy »

Techie-Micheal wrote:Taking a movie/cd/software package/whatever that you didn't pay for isn't stealing?
Taking it off the shelves and walking off with it from a store is stealing, downloading a copy is copyright infringement. Different crimes, different punishments. Ticks me off when people confuse the two.
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Re: Your opinions on TPB trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by Techie-Micheal »

ToonArmy wrote:
Techie-Micheal wrote:Taking a movie/cd/software package/whatever that you didn't pay for isn't stealing?
Taking it off the shelves and walking off with it from a store is stealing, downloading a copy is copyright infringement. Different crimes, different punishments. Ticks me off when people confuse the two.
I'm not confusing anything. Yes, it is copyright infringement, but I still equate it to stealing. ;) It wasn't yours, you didn't pay for it, but you still took it.
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Techie-Micheal
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Re: Your opinions on TPB trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by Techie-Micheal »

A_O_C wrote:They are stealing it because they can. Its not legal, but at this point, I dont think they care.
Which goes right back to the company being in their rights to recoup from TPB. In wGEric's example, TPB was in full knowledge of the illegal material, but refused to do anything about it.
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Re: Your opinions on TPB trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by ToonArmy »

Techie-Micheal wrote:
ToonArmy wrote:
Techie-Micheal wrote:Taking a movie/cd/software package/whatever that you didn't pay for isn't stealing?
Taking it off the shelves and walking off with it from a store is stealing, downloading a copy is copyright infringement. Different crimes, different punishments. Ticks me off when people confuse the two.
I'm not confusing anything. Yes, it is copyright infringement, but I still equate it to stealing. ;) It wasn't yours, you didn't pay for it, but you still took it.
It doesn't have the same effect as stealing. Stealing deprives somebody of physical property. If you duplicate their copyrighted material they have not lost any property, just lost revenue from a license fee. The differentiation doesn't make it any less wrong.

Saying they equate to the same thing, somebody looses money. It is a bit like saying murder and manslaughter are the same thing, in the end somebody dies right?

Anyhow I'll leave it at that.
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Re: Your opinions on TPB trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by 3Di »

You guys really have the time to nitpick on that?

Anyway, those are two different crimes, indeed. :ugeek:
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Techie-Micheal
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Re: Your opinions on TPB trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by Techie-Micheal »

ToonArmy wrote:
Techie-Micheal wrote:
ToonArmy wrote:
Techie-Micheal wrote:Taking a movie/cd/software package/whatever that you didn't pay for isn't stealing?
Taking it off the shelves and walking off with it from a store is stealing, downloading a copy is copyright infringement. Different crimes, different punishments. Ticks me off when people confuse the two.
I'm not confusing anything. Yes, it is copyright infringement, but I still equate it to stealing. ;) It wasn't yours, you didn't pay for it, but you still took it.
It doesn't have the same effect as stealing. Stealing deprives somebody of physical property. If you duplicate their copyrighted material they have not lost any property, just lost revenue from a license fee. The differentiation doesn't make it any less wrong.

Saying they equate to the same thing, somebody looses money. It is a bit like saying murder and manslaughter are the same thing, in the end somebody dies right?

Anyhow I'll leave it at that.
I'll post my disagreement and then we'll drop it. This is why I equate copyright infringement with stealing:

- You see something you like
- You either pay for it or take it
- If you are in the store, you pull it off the shelves and pay for it or run
- If you are online, you either go to the order form or you download illegally

In both cases of stealing, you knew that what you were doing was wrong, you knew you didn't have a license for it, but you did it anyway. Manslaughter and murder are different, because in manslaughter you don't necessarily choose certain actions, in murder you do. In copyright infringement, you are in fully knowledge of your choices, and you take something without access. Your intent is the same regardless of whether or not you are in the store or online; you don't want to pay for something.
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Re: Your opinions on TPB trial (The pirate Bay)

Post by Anon »

The key difference is that physical objects are zero-sum. You acquire a copy, but in doing so someone else must have given up a copy that they once had. However copyright infringement is not zero sum. I can take a picture of a tree and email it to one person. Or three people. Or five hundred thousand people. But in doing that, I have not lost anything. If on the other hand three people each take a chair from my house, then I have lost something. If three people view an image, I have not.

Before you go on about counter-factual scenarios about money, whether or not I demand money for my photo or for my chair is completely immaterial. It doesn't change that theft and copyright infringement are not the same. The outcome might be (hence why both are treated as crimes in the vast majority of states) but the method is completely different.
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