Should Marijuana be Entirely Legal?

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Elias
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Re: Should Marijuana be Entirely Legal?

Post by Elias » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:10 pm

jbones wrote:but I've seen enough families wrecked, lives ruined and deaths from dope and alcohol.
Keep in mind we are talking about marijuana here.
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Re: Should Marijuana be Entirely Legal?

Post by jbones » Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:25 pm

exactly; understood

It's harmless, right.

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Re: Should Marijuana be Entirely Legal?

Post by Elias » Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:53 pm

Not unless it is abused.
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Re: Should Marijuana be Entirely Legal?

Post by Green Light » Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:41 pm

jbones wrote:
Not on my agenda. It always comes down to choice legal or not. Still, I suspect if you legalize it - more will come, just like the end of prohibition did for booze. And I don't know about you, but I've seen enough families wrecked, lives ruined and deaths from dope and alcohol. Pro choice - funny, they all had the same sentiments; well, not now.

"They will just get it anyway" or "It will be great for the economy"– is like cutting your nose off to despise your face. Might as well open the doors to your house and invite a burglar in - after all; if they want in that bad, they will get in. Or perhaps just give that gun to your six year old- he'll just find it one day anyway. Perhaps we can just leave it to pro choice.

Dope and alcohol, cheese burgers - you must have the munchies. :lol:
There's a reason why at the end of an alcohol commercial they tell you to, what? Drink responsibly. Not everyone drinks till there f^ and drive on the wrong side of the road. Not everyone who smokes pot, smokes 24/7/365... Some do, but that's irresponsible, allot smoke occasionally. People who smoke weed don't have the same effect of those who are wasted.. Even if your high as hell, you can still walk in a straight line.. it doesn't mess with your balance or anything.. it just makes you feel good..

I'm curious if you ever took a hit.. Maybe you don't know the effects. It's not acid or DMT.

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Re: Should Marijuana be Entirely Legal?

Post by Darth Wong » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:32 am

jbones wrote:As if not enough lives are ruined and people die every year for the sake of losers who insist on drinking or doping to stupidity. Now you want us to legally add to it dope smokers -- smart; did ya'll actually graduate from the sixth grade or did you just stop going. You know the world has gone to crap when so many have to put themselves out of their minds in order to entertain themselves. What a fricken shame, waste of brain cells, and lives. :roll:
Green Light wrote:There's a reason why at the end of an alcohol commercial they tell you to, what? Drink responsibly. Not everyone drinks till there f^ and drive on the wrong side of the road. Not everyone who smokes pot, smokes 24/7/365... Some do, but that's irresponsible, allot smoke occasionally. People who smoke weed don't have the same effect of those who are wasted.. Even if your high as hell, you can still walk in a straight line.. it doesn't mess with your balance or anything.. it just makes you feel good..

I'm curious if you ever took a hit.. Maybe you don't know the effects. It's not acid or DMT.
It's unfortunate that debates like this tend to quickly turn to pro-pot vs anti-pot people. It is possible to oppose pot prohibition while simultaneously opposing pot. The fact is that narcotics are harmful for society. Substances with addictive properties do leave shattered lives in their wake.

However:

For the anti-pot people: it is possible to say that something is harmful, and yet still oppose prohibition on the basis that it effectively pours money into an underground black market, thus enriching criminals and destabilizing low-income communities. The same thing happened with alcohol.

For the pro-pot people: the fact that not everyone is easily addicted does not mean that a drug isn't a net harm to society. Casinos are a similar situation: if you open a casino in a neighbourhood, social problems follow. Not everyone gets addicted to it, but enough people do get addicted to create a trail of shattered lives.

In short, pot Prohibition has been a dismal failure, and it's time we admitted that, and stopped pouring money into the hands of criminals. At the same time, it's probably true that legalizing pot would increase pot use, and lead to more pot-heads. The reason for legalizing it is not because it's harmless, but because the massive crime problems associated with prohibition are worse than the disease.

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Re: Should Marijuana be Entirely Legal?

Post by Popp Singh » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:05 pm

"you cant take it as a pill."

One takes marinol that can be prescribed by doctors . Or one just eats it .

"Do not forget that it can be mixed with other drugs to give an even stronger drug."

So can any drug .

It doesnt destroy brain cells . And the only reason that one can get high is because thc docks onto the bodys own cannabinoid recepters . The body has them because the body produces cannabinoids like anandamide . The same goes for opiates . The body creates its own . The body also creates DMT = if we want to take the law seriously we would all be illegal......... .

Drugs dont ruin lives . Some people ruin their lives because they missuse drugs . And that often because they arent taught how to use them properly . When it comes down to it the most problems that are asociated with takeing drugs come because of their illegality .

Its a proven fact that the US government and other governments are the main smuglers of drugs . They often sell them to make money to fund black operations because their parlaments wouldnt fund those operations . The german government for example publicaly admits to one time buying and selling 30 tons of pakistani hash and another time buying and selling 100 kilos of coke . They were also involved in a deal where they treid to swap 106 kilos of coke for some russian mafia plutonium . A VERY good book to read is "The politics of heroin" ( wich also deals with other drugs ) wich was written by a respected american university professor called alfred w. mccoy . He used freely available amertican government documuents to prove that the us government is a majour drug smugler and the cause of most of the drug problems in the states .

Holland wich has liberal laws has less problems with drugs than other countrys where drugs are not liberalised . France is a good example . There they are very hard with drugs and have massive problems .

"more will come, just like the end of prohibition did for booze. And I don't know about you, but I've seen enough families wrecked, lives ruined and deaths from dope and alcohol"

Nobody has ever died from takeing cannabis . With the end of prohibition the alcohol consumption obviously rose because before that it was illegal and the consumers were hunted but after it was ended the consumption was not more than before prohibition was started .

"The fact is that narcotics are harmful for society. " - "Substances with addictive properties do leave shattered lives in their wake."

How and why ? And would those people "ruin" their lives with other drugs like alcohol if they didnt take opiates ?

The resons against liberaliseing / legaliseing drugs that have been stated here are not based on facts , science or scientific studys . If the people useing them would bother to do some research they would find that out . At the moment many people base their opinions on things that they have read in the press that are sensationalism and total bullshit .

On the other hand ..... to governments and people who dont like drugs ......... dont take them......and "If you want to play pocket billiards please play in your pockets and not try to play in mine" .

I have a web site for debates like this .

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Re: Should Marijuana be Entirely Legal?

Post by noth » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:08 pm

you have a web site for debates like this ?

to achieve what?

how are we supposed to negotiate a minefield like this topic?
At the moment many people base their opinions on things that they have read in the press that are sensationalism and total bullshit .
ok

and where do we go from there?

anybody reading this topic from post 1 is left with

a) a headache and

b) confusion

and now you're going to tell me "well don't read it then" :lol: yeah back to the Baseball Game

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Re: Should Marijuana be Entirely Legal?

Post by Popp Singh » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:45 pm

Its about consciousness , Psychenautics = traveling the psyche . Entheogens . Near death experiences . Philosophy . The white light experience . Drugs . Sacred / sacramental herbs and substances . Personal growth .

Its not just about drugs and we dont want to encourage anyone to take drugs . We are of the opinion , for me based on 37 years of experience , that less is more . And that most of the harm done to people and society wich is conected to drugs is a product of their "illegality" .

To educate people . To help them get real facts about the the things that they take . To be able to talk about absolutely anything as long as its within our rules wich are very loose . To clear up confusion .

In other words to try to help people not cause themselves , others and the planet problems and to raise awareness .

I`ve worked for years organiseing events to try to raise awarenes about the effects of drug laws and to educate people about safe drug use . The most sucsessfull was three days long and 30000 people came . I`ve also worked at music festivals since 1972 helping people who are haveing issues with drugs and issued a regular pamphlet trying to warn people of bad / dangerous pills and safe use .

Yup its a mine field but running away or turning ones back on problems doesnt solve them they only get worse. I think that there is a saying that goes something like this "people who dont learn the lessons of history and solve problems are destined to keep getting them untill they do" .


"you're going to tell me "well don't read it then""

No . I think you did what was the best = give opinions and ask questions .

If you have more or need more clarification please ask me .

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Re: Should Marijuana be Entirely Legal?

Post by Popp Singh » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:05 pm

Everything we do and feel is a result of electro chemical processes in the brain . To get pleaseure or do anything consciously we are manipulateing those reactions . It is seen as OK to manipulate those brain processes in very many ways for example with tea , coffee , tobaco , alcohol ( the two hardest , most adictive and most dangerous drugs that there are ), sex , jogging , eating a good meal with some nice people or even drilling holes in our own heads with an electric drill but not with cannabis ? Didnt god make all the plants and see that they were good and they were good ?

This makes interesting reading its about adiction.......... to money.........and fits in this debate / disscusion ----->

http://www.livescience.com/culture/What ... 00428.html

I`m not calling for total legalisation , well not to start with , because when it finaly gets decriminalised there will be a short surge of popularity and missuse but as in holland and all the countrys and areas where it is liberalised or legal that phase soon finishes and drug abuse drops .

When we want to drive a car we have to have lessons and then take a test to show that we can drive safely . Then we have to use products that fill safety regulations and use catalysers so that they spew out as little poison as posible . If that didnt happen the streets would be blocked by piles of dead bodys . Just as with cars there are some people who can use them safely and some who should keep away from them . Then we teach children right from the start about the dangers of cars , roads and crossing them and by that save VERY many lives . Why not do that with drugs instead of useing them to demonise people and split society......... = divide and rule .

Another lovely little titbit ( and dont start moaning about that word . Its the real origin of the "politicaly correct" tidbit . Nobody moans when we call birds tits or blue tits do they ) is that clinical tests have proved that when a person does an intelligence test before they were given LSD and one afterwards there was an average of a ten point or ten percent increase in their intelligence . Thats the diference between humans and apes or a person that hasnt slept well and the same person when they have . In clinical tests its something like one in forty thousand people have dificult experiences but within a few weeks those issues go away and there is no lasting damage .

The next point is that one reads in the press about people haveing bad drug experiences wich in fact rarely happen and that when they do they ofen happen because its "illegal" and they have been trained , conditioned ? , to have a guilty conscience . Remember pink floyd " we dont need no education , we dont need no thought control or dark sarcasm in the classroom , hey teacher leave those kids alone " = stop "educating" = indoctrinating our children and teach them to think and be honest.

Look at art music and books from a lot of history made by internationaly respected people that have been inspired by people expanding their consciousnesses with drugs . Its a VERY long list .

Remember things arent dangerous its what we do with them that makes something dangerous and through "illegality" we are forceing people who naturaly want to experiment into the underground where we cant help them . We as a society are also digging ourselves a BIG trap to fall in when kids find out that they have been lied to then they start to stop trusting authority and that can lead to them doing realy dangerous things . Wow cool bingo thank you .

I want anyone who thinks cannabis or any other drugs are bad to say so and to say why ? I want to hear what damage they do ?

OK everything can be missused and people can hurt themselves with them but what about instead of demoniseing drugs to make an honest list of all posibly dangerous things in the world and then put them in order of dangerousness . At the top would be alcohol , tobaco , meat , cars , knives , matches and and and .... the list could go on and on but drugs would be a long way down that list and cannabis would be very near the bottom . Remember if one drinks to much water one gets a realy nasty drug effect and if one drinks more than 6 liters in an hour one can die !!!!!

For anyone who says they should be illegal because i want to protect my kids sorry but if thats the case stop telling them lies and educate them to the facts and realitys .

So c`mon gimmi some reasons why cannabis / drugs should be illegal ?

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Re: Should Marijuana be Entirely Legal?

Post by Popp Singh » Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:48 pm

I can understand what i have said about cannabis / drugs / religeon / religeon being based on drugs / the bible and a few other things in the pope thread and here frightening some people as it probably doesnt fit with their world view . I have about 40 years of experience studying these and related themes and its hard to talk to people who have next to no knowledge on them and / or false opinions . So for anyone to have a very basic basis to discuss or think about the things i have said and to find PROOF of what i have said one could check these things in wiki . I`ve tried to keep the list short and used entrys that explain some things and have links to other parts of what i said . If that isnt enough or you dont understand anythig or you have questions please ask me as i have hundreds of books and thousands of scientific papers about these subjects .

Search for this in wiki "The road to eleusis" . Where there is a long list of articles . The list also mentions the names of the people who wrote it who you can also look up in wiki who are all internationaly known and respected scientists and / or experts .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Weil Who wrote the book "Natural mind" .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_ ... f_cannabis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_marijuana

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persephone%27s_Quest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Allegro About drugs in the bible .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_K._Siegel Who wrote the book "Intoxication" .

http://www.maps.org/research/cluster/psilo-lsd/ This site is VERY good for the real scientific facts about drugs .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Evans_Schultes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_LSD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsh_Chapel_Experiment Where catholic priests and rabis plus other people were given hallucinogens and had religeous experiences .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita_muscaria Peter t furst who wrote a book called "Hallucinogens and culture"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entheogen

---------------------------------------------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_camp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler%27s_Pope

Google ----->
hitler catholic
and
hitler pope

Unless someone has anything to say i have no more to say on these subjects . Sorry if thats a bit overkill but when ignorant people call me a lier or say that they dont tust me because i have offered no proof i dont like it .

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Re: Should Marijuana be Entirely Legal?

Post by oddfish » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:43 pm

Should Marijuana be Entirely Legal?
I would not consider it necessary. To the detriment of reality in a working environment alone, sleepy attitudes are dangerous and thinking behind the eight ball (euphorically .. or ahead of it in a totally unconnected tangent) causes issues and egos the size of lemons (inflated by their own reality).

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Re: Should Marijuana be Entirely Legal?

Post by DoYouSpeakWak » Sun May 02, 2010 7:42 am

Yes it shoud.

1: its not more harmfull than alcohol. deathcount of alcohol = millions, cannabis = none. Personally i newer though alcohol anymore, Cannabis gives less hangovers and im not just sitting in a corner sobbing over some poor girl.
2: Its natural provided by god (if you belive in that sort of thing) Compared to drugs like lsd,herion etc that is man made.
3: Its legal in many countries, they have no problems with it, actually crime in this area have gone down due to this, And its logical enough, if you can buy it in shops why use street pushers that also trade in harder stuff.

And the main reason its illigal in some countries is ignorance. for example in my country the last time cannabis was discussed by politicians was in 1955. No medical docters were present, no studies had been made. Its was just people that had no idea what it was talking about it. And those who had seen the effect on others just said it was dangerous, everybody else agreed and now its been illigal here for 55 years.

Luckily that did no stop anybody and since 1970 you have been able to buy cannabis products on a street market from a large variaty of stands, no limits what so ever. Only place in europe besides amsterdam its posible like that. The police raids the place a few times a year, 1 hour after they are gone its on again, its been like that for soon 40 years. And please notice nobody have turned into satanist or become communist or alike.

But the political standpoints from 1955 is still brougt up by todays politicians, its so easy. YEah right

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Re: Should Marijuana be Entirely Legal?

Post by Darth Wong » Mon May 03, 2010 6:25 pm

Is it more than mere coincidence that the drugs which are primarily manufactured and distributed by white people (tobacco, alcohol, opiate-based painkillers) are all legal, while the drugs that are more popular in minority-dominated neighbourhoods are illegal?

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Re: Should Marijuana be Entirely Legal?

Post by EXreaction » Mon May 03, 2010 6:48 pm

Is it coincidence that those areas you are talking about are generally more poor in wealth (and definitely more poor in community)?

What is a good way to get a little enjoyment out of your life if you can't afford nice things and can't think of any way of getting out of where you currently live?

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Re: Should Marijuana be Entirely Legal?

Post by Darth Wong » Mon May 03, 2010 6:56 pm

EXreaction wrote:Is it coincidence that those areas you are talking about are generally more poor in wealth (and definitely more poor in community)?

What is a good way to get a little enjoyment out of your life if you can't afford nice things and can't think of any way of getting out of where you currently live?
Good point. It just drives me nuts when I see sanctimonious people like my father-in-law who thinks he's so much better than those druggie pot-heads, but he himself is constantly popping opiates (of course, that's totally different because they're legal painkillers).

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