iPhone 4

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Desdenova
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Re: iPhone 4

Post by Desdenova » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:05 pm

So basically, you believe that Apple should have total, full, and absolute control over all content, without being held legally responsible for the content they provide?

I love their paradoxical logic. "If there's money to be made, we want to make it, but if there's money to be lost, we want the developers to lose it."

Apple standards. :roll:

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Highway of Life
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Re: iPhone 4

Post by Highway of Life » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:58 pm

Desdenova wrote:So basically, you believe that Apple should have total, full, and absolute control over all content, without being held legally responsible for the content they provide?
phpBB has the same kind of control. Most good moderated databases of apps/script have some kind of filtering in place of what they will and will not allow, and the ability to pull anything that they deem inappropriate (for whatever reason).
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Re: iPhone 4

Post by Marc » Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:23 pm

Erik Frèrejean wrote:
marc1706 wrote:Also why do you people always want to buy a phone before having seen it in real life. Have you read any tests that make it better than the iPhone 3GS or other smartphones around? Did you already have one in hand?
Basically cause I've been planning on getting one since the first gen, but never could afford one. Now I think its just silly to get a 3GS with 4 almost shipping, if 4 turns out to be really really bad one can still get the 3GS ;).
I've no problem with people choosing to buy an iPhone, but I have a problem with people that just want to have the new iPhone because it's the new iPhone. A few days ago I read an article about it. Some people just tend to have something like an Apple Religion. If it's new and it's from Apple they just want to have it.
That's the same thing with the iPad. It's basically a toy or a gadget, but nothing near a computer.
If some other company like ASUS or ACER would have build something like that, I think most people wouldn't have bought it.
Callum95 wrote:
I've been talking to a couple people (on IRC) at WWDC who have used they phone. From what they've been saying it is well worth the extra money over the 3GS, it's loads faster and the screen and camera = 0.o

~Callum
Again, don't just blindly buy something because people say it's better. Go into an Apple Store and test it.

By the way, I'm not using an iPhone mainly for a few reasons:
  • way too expensive (you have to make a really expensive 2-year contract)
  • Bad battery life (at least up to iPhone 3GS)
  • my friends had too many bad experiences with the iPhone
  • I like to be able to access my phone's storage without some stupid software

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Re: iPhone 4

Post by callumacrae » Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:24 pm

marc1706 wrote:By the way, I'm not using an iPhone mainly for a few reasons:
  • way too expensive (you have to make a really expensive 2-year contract)
  • Bad battery life (at least up to iPhone 3GS)
  • my friends had too many bad experiences with the iPhone
  • I like to be able to access my phone's storage without some stupid software
England has pay and go :)
Battery life was fine on my 3G :/
My friends didn't have iPhones, I did :D
Well that makes pirating easier, doesn't it? I think that's the point.

~Callum

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Re: iPhone 4

Post by Desdenova » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:38 pm

Callum95 wrote:
marc1706 wrote:By the way, I'm not using an iPhone mainly for a few reasons:
  • way too expensive (you have to make a really expensive 2-year contract)
  • Bad battery life (at least up to iPhone 3GS)
  • my friends had too many bad experiences with the iPhone
  • I like to be able to access my phone's storage without some stupid software
England has pay and go :)
Battery life was fine on my 3G :/
My friends didn't have iPhones, I did :D
Well that makes pirating easier, doesn't it? I think that's the point.

~Callum
Restricting your users from interacting with the device you sell for piracy reasons is ridiculous in the long run, regardless. Where do you draw the line? When the phone is made to never accept interfacing with a standard computer? When the phone doesn't accept any user-generated content, but only "official" developer content?

Hello, DRM. "Let's rip away user freedom in exchange for ensuring we sell a few more devices."

edit: s/hellp/hello/ - hurr durr I can't type now can I?
Last edited by Desdenova on Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Marshalrusty
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Re: iPhone 4

Post by Marshalrusty » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:11 am

Highway of Life wrote:
Desdenova wrote:So basically, you believe that Apple should have total, full, and absolute control over all content, without being held legally responsible for the content they provide?
phpBB has the same kind of control. Most good moderated databases of apps/script have some kind of filtering in place of what they will and will not allow, and the ability to pull anything that they deem inappropriate (for whatever reason).
We have an official database, but users are also welcome to install MODs from unaffiliated sources. That's the difference.

It's perfectly legitimate for Apple to control the stuff in their apps store. The problem is that they've restricted their store to be the only store. That changes everything from my point of view.
Callum95 wrote:A - well duh, against the NYtimes ToS, or something like that. It's back now anyway.
B - Pointless! They should never have been let in
C - That app should never have been let in in the first place.

I agree with all those removals, and would have done so myself, too.
And since you/Apple think this is the case, so should the rest of the planet. I mean, why would we want to allow people to install whatever they like on the systems they paid for, right?
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Re: iPhone 4

Post by Desdenova » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:31 am

Marshalrusty wrote:I mean, why would we want to allow people to install whatever they like on the systems they paid for, right?
My goodness, they might use software that we won't make a profit off of! This cannot be alowed!

(suddenly, you hear flash being removed from the potential iPhone feature list)

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Highway of Life
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Re: iPhone 4

Post by Highway of Life » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:41 pm

Marshalrusty wrote:It's perfectly legitimate for Apple to control the stuff in their apps store. The problem is that they've restricted their store to be the only store. That changes everything from my point of view.
You’re absolutely correct.
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Re: iPhone 4

Post by callumacrae » Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:19 am

Highway of Life wrote:
Marshalrusty wrote:It's perfectly legitimate for Apple to control the stuff in their apps store. The problem is that they've restricted their store to be the only store. That changes everything from my point of view.
You’re absolutely correct.
To be honest, I can see why they do it.

I would like them to be a bit less tight with letting apps in, but I can understand most of the reasons - doesn't work, will break with future updates, misleading, illegal.

I think they should let stuff like Google Voice in. I don't think they should let Flash in, I don't like Flash :)

~Callum

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Re: iPhone 4

Post by Marshalrusty » Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:37 am

Callum95 wrote:I don't think they should let Flash in, I don't like Flash :)
Marshalrusty wrote:And since you/Apple think this is the case, so should the rest of the planet. I mean, why would we want to allow people to install whatever they like on the systems they paid for, right?
Just for a second, consider the possibility that not everyone wants the exact same software you do. So while you want app A, someone else wants app B. Except that app B isn't in the app store because someone decided that you shouldn't want app B. And, of course, there's no other way to load app B, so the decision has been made.

You and I may not like flash, but that's certainly no reason to ban it for everyone else. Just because Apple has the legal right to do this doesn't mean you should be agreeing with their policies.

You've been around here for a while. Ever look around at what we do and what we stand for? Wouldn't you be angry if we changed our license to a proprietary one and started dictating what MODs you could install?
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Re: iPhone 4

Post by callumacrae » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:46 am

Marshalrusty wrote:
Callum95 wrote:I don't think they should let Flash in, I don't like Flash :)
Marshalrusty wrote:And since you/Apple think this is the case, so should the rest of the planet. I mean, why would we want to allow people to install whatever they like on the systems they paid for, right?
Just for a second, consider the possibility that not everyone wants the exact same software you do. So while you want app A, someone else wants app B. Except that app B isn't in the app store because someone decided that you shouldn't want app B. And, of course, there's no other way to load app B, so the decision has been made.

You and I may not like flash, but that's certainly no reason to ban it for everyone else. Just because Apple has the legal right to do this doesn't mean you should be agreeing with their policies.

You've been around here for a while. Ever look around at what we do and what we stand for? Wouldn't you be angry if we changed our license to a proprietary one and started dictating what MODs you could install?
True :/

In terms of the app store, I think halfway between the android store and the iPhone App Store would be best - I've heard that the android store has some apps that don't work :/ Correct?

~Callum

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Re: iPhone 4

Post by Marshalrusty » Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:24 pm

Callum95 wrote:In terms of the app store, I think halfway between the android store and the iPhone App Store would be best - I've heard that the android store has some apps that don't work :/ Correct?
I haven't encountered any that don't work outright, but some are less than perfect. There may be some that are just broken. That is indeed a concern, however you can always look at the comments to figure this out.

The android market provides freedom, but the tradeoff is always going to be less quality assurance. In the worst case scenario, you just uninstall the app.
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Re: iPhone 4

Post by Double_J » Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:15 pm

Marshalrusty wrote:
Callum95 wrote:In terms of the app store, I think halfway between the android store and the iPhone App Store would be best - I've heard that the android store has some apps that don't work :/ Correct?
I haven't encountered any that don't work outright, but some are less than perfect. There may be some that are just broken. That is indeed a concern, however you can always look at the comments to figure this out.

The android market provides freedom, but the tradeoff is always going to be less quality assurance. In the worst case scenario, you just uninstall the app.
Or the app will demolish your phone...

Anyhow, I do believe there are both cons and pros to the current implementation of the Appstore. First of before I post my thoughts, I am going to buy this(unless Engadget or such blog posts that it really sucks) phone.

Reasons are that I tried the 3G of my friends and I am very impressed of the software compared to the Android(or other) platform.

Since I will buy this phone, that does not mean that I 100% agree with the current policies of Apple. For example the one regarding developing of Apps and the one about the advertising. But since I do choose to buy this phone, I will not complain about this.

In a 'perfect' world, there would be the App store, which is hosted and managed by Apple, which gives you: Quality assurance, Assurance that your App works, and the other benefits that you would expect from a managed shop. This would be ideal for users (like me) who don't want to bother to much with the device but want to have assurance of it actually working. Apart from this controlled environment, Apple would also allow for a secondary mode to install apps which would not ensure the quality of apps in the App store and which would be at your own risk.

However this is not a perfect world, so we do not have the option. Also the second method now is "sort of" available with Jailbreaking. However for me as the average user, I will not go ahead and Jailbreak the device and such, I can't be bothered by it. Which is also another reason why I don't choose the android platform, because I can't really be bothered with all the techie installs and costum roms and such(Although I'm well aware of the Android market place as a very good alternative to Appstore).

So baseline of my story, I don't always agree with Apple of course, however for me the cons don't way into the pro's which I (will) experience from the device. Also I see the comming 2 years as a test for the fact that "Am I a guy who will actually USE smartphones. And if so, do I actually like the platform at all". Because I do not believe you can tell, merely by examinig the reviews and experience of others, because around me everyone says "Android is best", or "iPhone is best". So if after 2 years my experience is bad.. I simply get a phone from another vendor with another operating system.

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Re: iPhone 4

Post by Marshalrusty » Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:15 am

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-20007531-260.html
The Federal Trade Commission will open an investigation into whether Apple is illegally using its position in the mobile software market to harm competitors, according to several published reports. On Friday afternoon, both Bloomberg News and The Wall Street Journal reported that the FTC had opened a formal probe.
Finally the FTC has noticed. Whether they do anything about it in the long run is a different story altogether.
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Re: iPhone 4

Post by Phil » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:09 am

Didn't they do a similar investigation sometime in the recent past?
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