Bin Laden dead...now what?

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DavidIQ
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Bin Laden dead...now what?

Post by DavidIQ »

So I'm sure most of you have seen the news and are aware that Osama Bin Laden has been allegedly killed by U.S. forces. If you haven't then just head on over to just about any news site and read up about it.

But what does all this actually mean for Al Qaeda? Will it now fall? Is the world a safer place because of the death of this one man? What are your feelings about this bit of news? I heard that in NY people went to the streets and celebrated!
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Re: Bin Laden dead...now what?

Post by DoYouSpeakWak »

Well. Im not over the top happy.

First off the news i read this morning told me the the us forces (navy) had dropped his body in the ocean. If its true then it sounds a bit fishy. Again it will be us again the world. We have to belive the us on this matter. Its going to be hard without proof to show.

Why havnt we heard about the hunt for him ? It would be great pr to say we almost have him, were are hunting him down, this news just comes right out of the blue. Again fishy.

Knowing that my goverment and most of the world are still to see some evidence that Bin laden was behind 911, im very sure this wont make any difference what so ever. Our goverments wants us to be scared, thats how they make money, (yes they make money on war in the us and in other countries), without a enemy there will be no war. So of course this struggle will go on.

The US (and coalition) killed around 650K civilians in Iraq. Im sure you can add a few more for afganistan and other places around the world. When it comes to the numbers, the coalition have killed far more humans the last 10 years than any terrorist group have ever done. Im not scared of the terrorists at all, im affraid of how many innocent humans US (and the coalition) and israel are going to kill in the future.

Its very simple, The us and israel and for the last 10 years the coalition have been striking down on any muslim target, Iraq,Afganistan,pakistan etc etc. Killing innocent civilians, Of course a large majority of the non violent everyday muslims in general dont like that, why should they ? From our bombs hate will grow, "We do they only bomb muslims contries" Its easy to see how hate towards us can be build up in the general public. When you think of it this way there is only two ways to get peace, kill all muslims in the world, take over there countries. OR talk to them, find a solution (We move out and let them run there own countries). There is nothing in between that can bring peace. Ill take the last solution anytime since im not a racist.

Remember, no hate and invasions of muslim countries = No terrorists (Not that they are that dangerous), We gave the terrorists the reasons to become terrorists, lets take that away after 50 yeras of hate towards them from the western world. Mutual respect and understanding thru debate is the ONLY way.

If your sitting at home, being scared of terrorists and you belive they are the number 1 threat to you and your family just spend 5 misn viewing these two vids. Listen to the facts and let the facts lead you to the truth.Think for yourself instead of taking advise from your goverment that just wants more war.

This dude is 80+ years old. WW2 wet, politician for over 60 years. He knows the world. Do you ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnserZOf1-4

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-j3iQeE06c

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Re: Bin Laden dead...now what?

Post by Ag2000CO »

Those that are able to see a conspiracy around every corner do live in a different world, but are benign.
DoYouSpeakWak wrote:If your sitting at home, being scared of terrorists and you belive they are the number 1 threat to you and your family just spend 5 misn viewing these two vids. Listen to the facts and let the facts lead you to the truth.Think for yourself instead of taking advise from your goverment that just wants more war.
Those that are among the select few to have the "true" vision; the only ones able to interpret the facts correctly; less so. I have never understood the logic of accusing others of being dupes as you try to change their minds. Obviously we should take our advise from you based on ...?

Those that start with a grand conspiracy make me wonder about, their view of the landing on the moon, Roswell, and whether the world is flat.

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Re: Bin Laden dead...now what?

Post by DoYouSpeakWak »

Ag2000CO wrote:Those that are able to see a conspiracy around every corner do live in a different world, but are benign.
DoYouSpeakWak wrote:If your sitting at home, being scared of terrorists and you belive they are the number 1 threat to you and your family just spend 5 misn viewing these two vids. Listen to the facts and let the facts lead you to the truth.Think for yourself instead of taking advise from your goverment that just wants more war.
Those that are among the select few to have the "true" vision; the only ones able to interpret the facts correctly; less so. I have never understood the logic of accusing others of being dupes as you try to change their minds. Obviously we should take our advise from you based on ...?

Those that start with a grand conspiracy make me wonder about, their view of the landing on the moon, Roswell, and whether the world is flat.
I dont ask you to belive what i say, simple to look at the facts, the evidence and make up your own mind, If any goverments just once tell ONE lie, and its politicians persoanlly gain money from war and killing of innocent people,then to me at least it makes sense to ask yourself everytime they say something. Why do they say what they say ? Is it true ?. Compare what they say with the evidence and make up your own mind.

ALOT of people do not do this, they just eat any statement from there goverment as being 100% true. This is irresponsible and childish. Thats what i wanna change. Nothing else. Does that really sounds so crazy to you guys ?

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Re: Bin Laden dead...now what?

Post by VSE »

Bin Laden's body was buried at sea quickly in order to comply with Islamic traditions about burial - something the US did no doubt to show respect for that religion - a very smart move.

As for proof: DNA testing on his remains is underway. Photos and video have of course been made to document it and will be released when appropriate. You can't claim he is dead and not show proof of it. Otherwise they would have claimed to have killed him back at Tora Bora.

As to the OP question. I don't know if we are safer or not because of it. I had pretty much forgotten about him. What has Bin Laden really done these past 10 years other than hide? He has not directly been part of any of the successful or failed attacks to have happened since.

This really does nothing but bring closure to a chapter in the war on terrorism. What the next chapter will bring, remains to be seen... All I know is, in the grand scheme of human civilization - there are no happy endings. Perhaps that is why I work in the movies. :lol:

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Re: Bin Laden dead...now what?

Post by Erik Frèrejean »

VSE wrote:As for proof: DNA testing on his remains is underway. Photos and video have of course been made to document it and will be released when appropriate. You can't claim he is dead and not show proof of it. Otherwise they would have claimed to have killed him back at Tora Bora
In all honesty I don't find the taken pictures conclusive evidence (if pictures only where Yeti and Nessie would exist as well ;)). As for the DNA proof, well yah positive DNA results are proof. But nobody actually where they got the DNA to match on in the first place, and getting rid of the body before conclusive evidence has been provided but at the same time scream "HE'S DEAD" sounds fishy to me.
I'm not a person running around with all kind of conspiracy theories, but at this point I find the whole Osama thing just smelling really fishy.
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Re: Bin Laden dead...now what?

Post by battye »

Hopefully this provides a conclusion for so many families and friends affected by September 11.
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Re: Bin Laden dead...now what?

Post by VSE »

Well, look at it this way. The United States can not afford to lie about the death of the most notorious and most wanted terrorist of all time.

He could easily release a new date stamped video or make some kind of public appearance if he were still alive.

And then what would the US say or do?

No, the US could not go on record with this news unless it were absolutely true.

He has met his demise. It's just too easy to disprove to be a lie.

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Re: Bin Laden dead...now what?

Post by _Vinny_ »

No, the US could not go on record with this news unless it were absolutely true.
Yes, when I read the news first on Twitter, then turned on the TV. All the news channels showed only the death of Bin Laden, I waited until the pronouncement of President Obama, if President confirmed the death, the rumors should be logically correct, because to make the announcement to "everyone" should already be confirmed the death.

Now, to commemorate the death of one person, however evil it has caused, does not sound good.

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Re: Bin Laden dead...now what?

Post by Rahber »

So many questions yet to be answered:: Why not take Bin Laden alive? Why bury him secretly at sea with no independent confirmation? What information did Bid Laden possess that killing him was the desired option? Why go after him now, after invading two countries and killing hundreds and thousands of innocent people (including allied soldiers)? Imagine if they spent the same time, effort, and money in finding Bin Laden right away as they did in invading and occupying Iraq or Afghanistan? They would have found him in a couple of weeks.

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Re: Bin Laden dead...now what?

Post by lurttinen »

I might be worried about the Wikileak papers where terrorists claim they hid a nuke in europe and use it if Osama is killed or captured.

Wikileak might not be a trusted source of information, but we can be sure there will be retaliation from the extremist factions.
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Re: Bin Laden dead...now what?

Post by DoYouSpeakWak »

VSE wrote:Well, look at it this way. The United States can not afford to lie about the death of the most notorious and most wanted terrorist of all time.

He could easily release a new date stamped video or make some kind of public appearance if he were still alive.

And then what would the US say or do?

No, the US could not go on record with this news unless it were absolutely true.

He has met his demise.
Many us goverments have lied and its been proven many many times, im sure even you now know there was no dangerous weapons in Iraq to threaten us or any other nation. That was a lie, one they didnt get away with. History tells us that most goverments will lie to get there message across. Why would this time around be any diffrent ? Those people in the us and around the world, that killed around 650K civilians in Iraq walk free to this day, why are they not arrested ? lets take a irl example of this. If i run down a family and kill there two kids, and get before a judge and say "Im sorry it was a mistake" I still get put in jail. These guys made millions and got away. Justice ??

Regarding his death.

1:

The house he lived in was a 5 million dollar house surrunded by 10 bucks shags. The mainstream press in my country told us that "people" on the internet had been talking about this house for a long time, images posted. Because it stuck out in its area.

Why would he be living there perm ? Only 2 hours away from the pakistan capital, why would he be a sitting duck for this long, why not move around all the time like everybody thought he did. They say it was build for him 5 years ago. Why didnt ANY US intellegence service know of this ? The press just told me today that there had been chatting about it on the net for years.

And why am i hearing this in the mainstream press (reuters) within 24 hours of his "supposed" death, alot of info on such a shart time isnt it ? (OT, Oswalds death was announced in asia before he was actually caught by the police in the us, meaing the press will print what they are told, no questions asked)

2:

Do you know what justice is and how the justice system works in countries that are considered Democratic ?

Well let me tell you. First off anybody that is not convicted in a court of law is by definition innocent. When we got that ground rule down, lets move on. Osama bin laden have not been before a judge, he was hunted down and killed. No evidence was presented in his defense because he was killed before any trials could start.

Even the nazi criminals after WW2 got a trial if they didnt kill themself first. Bin laden killed 4000 people according to usa or around that. Nazies close to 20mio. Why is bin laden so special, Why is the dudes in that us run cuban prison so special why does normal justice not apply to them ?

3:

The whole thing with "Dead or alive" Is a thing of the past if you consider your country to be truely democratic. Why wouldnt you get the accused side of the story, maybe it could open up a few more options for any other trials.

4:

Using the excuse that he was dropped in the ocean to prevent any supporters visiting his grave is just stupid, How many bin laden supports would travel to the us from the middle east to visit his grave. And if he had arrived in the us, he could just have been burned at a unknown location. That way no grave to visit.

He should have been brought to a non allied country in europe for id confirmation, so all the allies and the us could come in and check it was true, it would only have taken a few days, the us could then do what ever they want with it. (What do you think happend with him before he died, tortured sound about right)



In the western world we preach democracy, we invade foreign countries that are no danger to us,tell them that our ways are perfect for them. Why cant we practice what we preach ? The way we,as a global community have handled this "terror" problem and yes i use the "" because its really such a small problem, our response to this small threat have been overwhelming, around 750K civilians or more have been killed, politicians have made millions personally, hate have grown around the western world, we are scared, demoralised in general compared to before 911 and war cant seem to stop, our soldiers crave it like a drug, putting on "Born in the usa" Before rolling into a village occupied with inferior firepower and killing 100s civilians in 15 mins.

Is it really worth it ? Does it justify killing around 750K mio civilians over the past 10 years. Not in my book, i count lives 1:1, im not sure what measurement system the military is using before the revenge is total. Even those who claim that 750K is unrealistic, then try to cut that in half, does it look any better now ?
rahber wrote:So many questions yet to be answered:: Why not take Bin Laden alive? Why bury him secretly at sea with no independent confirmation? What information did Bid Laden possess that killing him was the desired option? Why go after him now, after invading two countries and killing hundreds and thousands of innocent people (including allied soldiers)? Imagine if they spent the same time, effort, and money in finding Bin Laden right away as they did in invading and occupying Iraq or Afghanistan? They would have found him in a couple of weeks.
There you have it, Ask why, its one little word, why are alot of people so affraid to use it.

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Re: Bin Laden dead...now what?

Post by sleevedbiker »

DavidIQ wrote:So I'm sure most of you have seen the news and are aware that Osama Bin Laden has been allegedly killed by U.S. forces. If you haven't then just head on over to just about any news site and read up about it.

But what does all this actually mean for Al Qaeda? Will it now fall? Is the world a safer place because of the death of this one man? What are your feelings about this bit of news? I heard that in NY people went to the streets and celebrated!
NYC.... Everywhere in the US people were in the streets all night long... until about 7am. Hell even the mets game was interupted with everyone screaming USA
As for any retaliation, if there is any... more than likely it will be in Pakistan.

Why not take him alive? because the orders were dead or alive. We wanted him gone. What amazes me the most about some people is that, you have a GREAT thing happen, and yet they still manage to find something to complain or be negative about, during one of the greatest moments in american history.

As for all these questions regarding retaliation in the next 72 hours in america... you need to stop watching the NEWS... all it is, is ratings, they are a bunch of idiots reading a teleprompter.


DoYouSpeakWak: are you serious...? can you comprehend what would happen if we didnt do what we did?

rahber:... ok I am staring to question some people on this board... Do you actually know what is/was really going on? or are you all CNN junkies, and go based onw aht they say... i wouldnt be surprised if some of you were part of that asshole group that protests at military funerals.

The conclusibve evidence wasnt just pictures... it was DNA, along with many other tests, some of which cant be made to the public.

Heres how it works.... make the announcement, let the US celebrate... then go into the details.

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Re: Bin Laden dead...now what?

Post by DoYouSpeakWak »

sleevedbiker wrote: DoYouSpeakWak: are you serious...? can you comprehend what would happen if we didnt do what we did?

Heres how it works.... make the announcement, let the US celebrate... then go into the details.
Yes im dead serious, and yes i can, we would have less dead and less crimes commited. Very simple. Bin laden and his group was no thread to the us or any other nation after 9/11. We did NOT prevent any massive attack afterwards or in the past 10 years. The closest we have come were i live is a crippled man with 1 leg blowing himself up in a hotel room.

You cannot justify the crimes, the 750K civilians death, the billions stolen from the american public, no way. Those actions are 100% hatefull and wrong any 10yr child will tell you that, Were i live we learn the diffrence between wrong and right early when it comes to crimes against humanity, and sure saddam and others have done that on a smaller scale as well, But that does not make it right for anyone or any nation to follow the same path.

Celebrate all you want, maybe a few americans will see its useless to spend more money on the war.

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Re: Bin Laden dead...now what?

Post by VSE »

_Vinny_ wrote:Now, to commemorate the death of one person, however evil it has caused, does not sound good.
Agreed, I guess we are still a barbaric and savage animal.
DoYouSpeakWak wrote:Celebrate all you want, maybe a few americans will see its useless to spend more money on the war.
I didn't celebrate. I just went to bed. To me, it was just another regular day. :mrgreen:

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