Software piracy

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psoTFX
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Post by psoTFX »

epic_admin wrote: if you think software should be paid for why is phpBB FREE?

point made

Point not made ... phpBB is "free as in speech, not as in beer". The GPL allows people to charge for software, though frankly there isn't much point.

All your points are totally and utterly invalid "Plastic costs, typing doesn't" ... tosh. I "survive" by being paid for the work I do. I do phpBB in my spare time ... without paid employment how do you think people survive? huh? Do you think we march into Tesco and say "Hi, I'm the lead developer of phpBB therefore I don't expect to pay for my shopping" ... somehow I don't think Tesco will go for that, do you?

As for cost ... well in that respect we may agree on certain aspects. I've noted before I simply do not comprehend how Adobe (for example) can justify the cost of Photoshop. There are cases, amply demonstrated by some of the other board software out there, that pricing structures aren't based on "costs" they are based on "what we can get away with". That sort of structure is IMHO disgusting, particularly where companies have positioned themselves or their products to be market leading ... which in turn can effect the ability for average Joe user to break into a career. As for the cost of Windows, actually I believe the cost isn't terribly great.

If you wish to use free software across your system, great, more power to you. If you wish to spread the word about free alternatives to existing commercial applications, again more power to you. But don't suggest software companies who charge for their applications are somehow immoral ... they are doing business just like any other.

epic_admin
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Post by epic_admin »

very fair point psoTFX!
I have to agree you with on most of that. Yes windows does not cost very much, but if u want the server edition you have to pay per client? I work in a school, and like every other school we have to have lisences for every workstation and every copy of every software around the building....and once its all added up...jeez i could buy a house for that!
and its not like we are even payin for more software, but just for a peace of paper sayin we can install...i dont think there should be lisences, i think once u have the software its for the person/company to do with as it wishs. Unfortunatly we have to... its the law.

With tesco.... its a phsycal product you are buyin, and it cost money to make and produce... if u buy a software cd, u should pay for the cd cost and handling etc, not £600 for a server edition of sumthing

nice to hear what people think on this subject tho

arhodes16
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Post by arhodes16 »

epic_admin wrote: very fair point psoTFX!
I have to agree you with on most of that. Yes windows does not cost very much, but if u want the server edition you have to pay per client? I work in a school, and like every other school we have to have lisences for every workstation and every copy of every software around the building....and once its all added up...jeez i could buy a house for that!

Server editions are priced at overly expensvie prices because the people who use them make money from them. I'm not saying I agree with the prices, but I can see the general logic. Also worth noting that schools get heavily discounted MS licenses I believe, as if a school is entirely MS the kids grow up learning to use MS and hence businesses continue to use MS. Of course this is great little circle MS have going as schools can't switch to free opensource solutions as the businesses don't currently use them and employers look for MS based experience for the majority of general jobs involving PC use.
With tesco.... its a phsycal product you are buyin, and it cost money to make and produce... if u buy a software cd, u should pay for the cd cost and handling etc, not £600 for a server edition of sumthing

You just don't seem to be getting it, there is a cost to making a software product that is a great deal more than the cost of printing it onto the CD. Software doesn't just appear from nowhere, it takes teams of people on salaries with managers on salaries in buildings that need their rent paying etc. etc. This is what your software license covers for commercial software, the cost of development, not the cost to put it on a CD.

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Post by epic_admin »

Server editions are priced at overly expensvie prices because the people who use them make money from them. I'm not saying I agree with the prices, but I can see the general logic. Also worth noting that schools get heavily discounted MS licenses I believe, as if a school is entirely MS the kids grow up learning to use MS and hence businesses continue to use MS. Of course this is great little circle MS have going as schools can't switch to free opensource solutions as the businesses don't currently use them and employers look for MS based experience for the majority of general jobs involving PC use.


Well first off....i work in an all girls school, and the boys school over the road is 100% Unix! The network manager there does not use any MS products, and as for the server software, we do not make money from it? so why charge schools so much...how much do you think it cost to get 400 workstation lisenced with winXP and officeXP? Discount is not even worth it after the amount we have to spend just to install the operating system everyware, theres even an upgrade lisence!

The students here have been shown how to use redhat and susie server, so no MS is not what they are been shown to use, its just in most school coz people are scared of change, and most people dont understand it

thanks for your point tho

arhodes16
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Post by arhodes16 »

epic_admin wrote: Well first off....i work in an all girls school, and the boys school over the road is 100% Unix! The network manager there does not use any MS products, and as for the server software, we do not make money from it? so why charge schools so much...how much do you think it cost to get 400 workstation lisenced with winXP and officeXP? Discount is not even worth it after the amount we have to spend just to install the operating system everyware, theres even an upgrade lisence!

I doubt that any school in the UK is 100% unix with zero Windows client machines, and frankly all girls/boys schools in the UK are not schools that can be quoted as the norm.

You are correct, your school doesn't make money out of the servers and hence the licenses to run them (although if it's a private school as it sounds like then I suspect it does) - however the majority of state schools at least receive huge discounts on all of their MS software in quantity and do not pay the same as a business would. Of course many would argue they still pay too much in the way of MS-tax, but that is a choice that a school has to make to educate it's students to be using what the majority of jobs will require.
The students here have been shown how to use redhat and susie server, so no MS is not what they are been shown to use, its just in most school coz people are scared of change, and most people dont understand it

Unless you are claiming that all of your students use Redhat or Suse linux (not susie) then I have no idea what point you are trying to make - the major computing environment at your school as admitted by yourself is provided by MS, and the school pay the MS tax because they have to.

Anyway, all of this has very little to do with why you believe all software should be free to pirate as you wish.

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Post by Graham »

epic_admin wrote: very fair point psoTFX!
I have to agree you with on most of that. Yes windows does not cost very much, but if u want the server edition you have to pay per client? I work in a school, and like every other school we have to have lisences for every workstation and every copy of every software around the building....and once its all added up...jeez i could buy a house for that!
and its not like we are even payin for more software, but just for a peace of paper sayin we can install...i dont think there should be lisences, i think once u have the software its for the person/company to do with as it wishs. Unfortunatly we have to... its the law.

As psoTFX and arhodes16 say, I think that you are completely missing the point. Yes some software is possibly too expensive, but for most of it, you are paying for the development costs (which includes all the support staff behind the developers), after sales support as well as just the distribution costs. But if you are buying that much MS software then you should be on one of the MS Educational Licenses, if you're not, then it's your employers stupidity which is causing the high expenditure, nothing more.

You use phpBB as an example, but lets be honest, many of the people involved do this in their spare time and as a full time job are paid to develop software. The same is true for many OSS projects.
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TC
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Post by TC »

the "MS is too expensif!!11!" argument no longer works.
.:: 28:Ø6:42:12 ::.

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psoTFX
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Post by psoTFX »

We actually use MAPS ... there are however provisos on that use. Firstly it's intended for use by companies who are in the process of selling MS software or services. Secondly it's a per year licence, you aren't (by EULA conditions) allowed unrestricted use of the software in that package. It's not intended for use by the unwashed masses.

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Post by epic_admin »

i still think companys need to re-think there price plan, when they have a good price plan i will pay, till then i couldnt care less how much they wana charge coz i wont pay it!

sorry if you think thats stupid, but u wanted to know what i thought so i told ya hehe

:D

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TC
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Post by TC »

psoTFX wrote: We actually use MAPS ... there are however provisos on that use. Firstly it's intended for use by companies who are in the process of selling MS software or services. Secondly it's a per year licence, you aren't (by EULA conditions) allowed unrestricted use of the software in that package. It's not intended for use by the unwashed masses.

...and IT professionals who sell Microsoft® products or provide solutions based on Microsoft products and technologies to third-party customers.

so free-lance techs fall under that category.
.:: 28:Ø6:42:12 ::.

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Post by Gud »

epic_admin wrote: i still think companys need to re-think there price plan, when they have a good price plan i will pay, till then i couldnt care less how much they wana charge coz i wont pay it!


Then don't use it. ;)

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Post by epic_admin »

nah i will use it i just wont pay for it ;) lol

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TC
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Post by TC »

epic_admin wrote: nah i will use it i just wont pay for it ;) lol

wow, you are so cool.
.:: 28:Ø6:42:12 ::.

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Post by drathbun »

epic_admin wrote: nah i will use it i just wont pay for it ;) lol

When you grow up I hope you get a job as a programmer and see how you feel then. :x
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Post by SamG »

Why limit it to programming? I don't see why I should pay for the labor side of anything epic_admin produces. Especially if he's living better than me by it.
We should talk less, and say more.

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