Expelled from school for a week because....

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MrKule
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Expelled from school for a week because....

Post by MrKule »

Hello,

Someone from my school had been expelled from school for a week for not understanding computers, because... (Please note I was not present)

He wanted to get on the computers, so he turned it on and somehow he got onto the BIOS (Which can easily be done if leaning on the computer ect, have you ever done it by accident?). He had no clue how to get out of it, so he attempted to get out of the BIOS (Which can be hard to do), he was (I assume) using the arrow keys to get to the exit section (which is in text not a menu item), however he got on the supervisor password section and three digits were in the field, whether he was trying to guess the password to get out or pressing down, or writing EXIT, who knows. An ICT teacher saw him (none were around) and accused him for malliciously attempting to lock the HDD, he had know idea what that meant, and how he did it. The head teacher and 2 ICT teachers were having a right go at him, saying he was doing it malicously and how you cant do it by accident. Any PC n00b can do anything by accident!

He asked me to help him, and realy, what can I do? I said he did hit by accident and its very simple to press keys to get to it, and that he had no clue about computers, however the Head Teacher was not taking any of that saying the evidence was right infront of him and that it would of cost alot of time and money to repair if he had pressed enter (which is not true as you have to exit, how can you exit and save if you dont know how to!!!).


What are your opinions, how would you fight your case, because this guy has no idea how to support himself except by saying "I dont know how that got there, it loaded and I tried to exit but couldnt, I know what it looks like...". I feel very sorry for him, as he is an A level student and it would be nice to prove two ICT teachers wrong (Head teacher was only going by what they said as he has no clue!).

What are you? For the Head Teacher or the A-level Student? And what would you recommend his best argument to prevent a week suspension?

Mr Kule
Last edited by MrKule on Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by adamsmark »

It would be helpful if you clarified the punishment. Expulsion and suspension are two different things.

As for my take, well, I'm not buying this I got into the password section by accident. Sounds suspicious, if not malicious. Apart from this student being an "A" student, how do you know that he's telling the truth?
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Post by CLee »

I don't buy the story either. If he did get into the CMOS screen and didn't know how to get out, then why didn't he immediately ask for help? That is what almost every other person would have done. But no, he kept fooling around.
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Techie-Micheal
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Post by Techie-Micheal »

adamsmark wrote: It would be helpful if you clarified the punishment. Expulsion and suspension are two different things.
I was going to say that. ^_^
As for my take, well, I'm not buying this I got into the password section by accident. Sounds suspicious, if not malicious. Apart from this student being an "A" student, how do you know that he's telling the truth?
Yeah, my thinking as well. Besides, there are steps that can be taken to prevent students from getting in to it, including password protecting the CMOS. You can also have it "quick boot" so that unless you are watching, you won't have a chance of getting in. Not the most complete, but is one way of mitigating the problem.
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Post by prince_of_oreon »

Tell Mr. Grade A Student to do the time and enjoy it. No, I have never accidentally leaned on the right keys to get to BIOS.

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Post by Flaming_cows »

The story is full of holes. That aside, I don't understand how flashing the CMOS costs a great deal of time and money. :?

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Post by A_Jelly_Doughnut »

School administrators easily go over the top...he'd be best to just enjoy the vacation.
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Post by adamsmark »

prince_of_oreon wrote: Tell Mr. Grade A Student to do the time and enjoy it. No, I have never accidentally leaned on the right keys to get to BIOS.


But, if you put 20 monkies in the room for a million years, they will accidently open and modify the BIOS.
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revsorg
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Post by revsorg »

The teacher should thank your friend for helping to identify a hole in the computer security at your school that can now be fixed.

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Post by Darth Wong »

Oh for Bob's sake, you don't have to be a straight-A student to know the difference between "EXIT" and "PASSWORD" on a menu. He's lying. He was screwing around for kicks and he got caught.
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Post by Anaximander Thales »

To add to Darth's comment - there are generally items at the bottom of the screen that tell you what to hit (esc = exit, arrows to move). It would be very easy to study the screen and figure out how to get to another menu.

Additionally, I've just taken a look at the 4 computers at our house - they either require hitting delete or F2 to get into the bios. You would have to physically hit the keys to get into the BIOS - I personally can't lean on my keyboard and hit 'just' the delete key.
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Post by Silverhawk060 »

bah i think that kid is lying... even my sister could get out of a bios screen... all you have to do is read the damn screen. Is "Exit without saving" so hard to see?

also, the bios should be password protected in school, if they had a password protection there is no way he's gonna accidentally enter the bios. If they didn't well... stupid admins :P Bios resetting also takes only a few seconds.

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Post by Andùril »

He found a security hole.

System administrators in general learn to err on the side of caution. Instead of having him expelled, I would have taught him what he did and showed how it was wrong to go into a system that you don't have access to for a reason. If there was a three letter password, I would teach those sys admins that they have made a major errors in their set up of the systems. Also, I would have chastised the sys admins for not locking the BIOS from regular users. It was foolish on their part.

But of course, sys admins, especially at schools (in my experience) are self-righteous egomaniacs. When I was in high school, I tried to enact a lot of change and most of it was put down by the so called 'network experts' hired by the school district. I then published a report in the school newspaper specifically outlining methods of disrupting the school networks and then the district board of education took action, not against me, but in order to improve security. That's how the system should work and it does sometimes.
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Post by calebrw »

CLee wrote: I don't buy the story either. If he did get into the CMOS screen and didn't know how to get out, then why didn't he immediately ask for help? That is what almost every other person would have done. But no, he kept fooling around.
so he's curious, i would do that to, its human nature to explore things...
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Post by Techie-Micheal »

calebrw wrote:
CLee wrote:I don't buy the story either. If he did get into the CMOS screen and didn't know how to get out, then why didn't he immediately ask for help? That is what almost every other person would have done. But no, he kept fooling around.
so he's curious, i would do that to, its human nature to explore things...
You do realize that in some cases things like that (probably not this instance) could constitute a felony, don't you? Breaking in to a computer system without authorization can be a felony. Under federal law, an entry in to a computer system can be a felony.

§ 18.2-152.4 - http://www.spamlaws.com/state/va.html

So the "I'm curious to go looking around at an educational institution's computer system" doesn't cut it. ;) Neither does the "accidental push of a button."
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