Anyone considering becoming a 3.0.x refugee?

Discussion of non-phpBB related topics with other phpBB.com users.
Forum rules
General Discussion is a bonus forum for discussion of non-phpBB related topics with other phpBB.com users. All site rules apply.
Ranch Dog
Registered User
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:20 am
Name: Michael

Anyone considering becoming a 3.0.x refugee?

Post by Ranch Dog » Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:35 am

I'm just curious if anyone is has decided to stay with this version, kind of like the phbb2 refugees? I'm real happy with my 3.0.14 and the various mods I have in place, 35 of them, all these mods having come from this forum's mod section.

It seems that making the change to 3.1.x will cost my users some of the features that they enjoy now as well as loosing the management tools I've added as the author's of many of these mods don't seem to be pursuing 3.1.x extensions. Looking at the timelines for the 3.1.x, it seems that it is soon to be at half life (at least by the time I make a decision about it) and then by 2016 (if I remember correctly) it is on to the next version.

I'm sure not criticising the effort that is put into the development of phpbb, thank you everyone involved, but It seems that I spent the life of 3.1 getting it to the point where I wanted it and I could say the same for phpbb2 as well. I'm just thinking of stepping off the merry-go-round and actually enjoying the ride on my forum rather than always seeing the need to adjust the nuts and bolts. Does anyone else feel this stuff? May be a little?

User avatar
AmigoJack
Registered User
Posts: 4993
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:33 am
Location: グリーン ヒル ゾーン
Contact:

Re: Anyone considering becoming a 3.0.x refugee?

Post by AmigoJack » Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:30 am

I'm staying off for technical reasons:
https://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.php?p=13989936#p13989936 wrote:
  1. The trigger check is so not being optimized for performance:
    https://area51.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=271217#p271217 wrote:

    Code: Select all

    extract($phpbb_dispatcher->trigger_event('core.viewforum_get_topic_data', compact($vars)));
    This call is sub-optimal, and I don't know why this call pattern has evolved. Cons:
    1. extract() is slower than i.e. foreach() $$var= $value
    2. extract() might fail when incorrect data is passed. Documentation comments say it fails for everything, including data which might be processed/parsed correctly.
    3. compact() creates variable copies - why not directly using references? That would also kill the need of extract()
    4. Both functions are always called (including all the work they do), even if they're not needed at all (no event matches to be triggered). Why not having an implementation where an if first checks for trigger matches and only after that all the extract/compact work is done? Considering how many times event trigger checks are encountered (and will surely increase in future releases) this is a questionable waste of overhead.
  2. While the trigger/extensions approach works for reducing (core) file changes, it is ill-conceived: you can have snow ball effects (extension code by one trigger can (re)match dozens of other triggers without hinting there's no need to (re)match anything else); just adding more hook points will never fully cover all needed cases, not to speak of preventing phpBB code lines from being executed (conditional jumps); ...
    In the end the question comes up why phpBB doesn't use triggers itself and surprisingly it turns out that not everything can be solved by adding trigger hooks.
  3. Relying on external frameworks comes with relying on bugs/threats on that external software. [...]
  4. The code has become less traceable because of auto-loading classes and configuration files - calling debug_backtrace() is not always a help.

TL;DR: the whole new code decreases performance and is more prone to mistakes/bugs/holes than 3.0.x. It has become a mixture of third party frameworks just to bring up a few new features.

From my long experience almost no coder (especially when it's a team) will dump previous work to restart for a better approach - no matter how bad the decision was in the past. And when it happens at all it is years later already after the project has lost many users and contributers already. So I don't expect 3.2 to be any better than 3.1 and it's just sad to see the rock solid 3.0 slowly fade away.

Pond Life
Registered User
Posts: 388
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:55 am

Re: Anyone considering becoming a 3.0.x refugee?

Post by Pond Life » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:35 pm

I would rather stick with 3.0.14 for all the reasons stated above but I do worry about what will happen when my hosting company updates php to a version that is no longer compatible. For example, viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2316556, I know it's not imminent but it will happen eventually and by that time the update may be even more problematic than it was when I tested it recently.

If someone were to do a fork to keep 3.0 working on future php versions it would make the choice much easier. Unfortunately it's a task that's above my current abilities and I don't have enough spare time to try at the moment.

Ranch Dog
Registered User
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:20 am
Name: Michael

Re: Anyone considering becoming a 3.0.x refugee?

Post by Ranch Dog » Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:28 pm

Pond Life wrote:I would rather stick with 3.0.14 for all the reasons stated above but I do worry about what will happen when my hosting company updates php to a version that is no longer compatible. For example, viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2316556, I know it's not imminent but it will happen eventually and by that time the update may be even more problematic than it was when I tested it recently.

If someone were to do a fork to keep 3.0 working on future php versions it would make the choice much easier. Unfortunately it's a task that's above my current abilities and I don't have enough spare time to try at the moment.
This is exactly how I feel but my hosting company (Arvixe) is very good at maintaining past versions of php and letting the user select what version is needed. They maintain 5.2 and last check have no intention of dropping it.

I've actually been running 3.1.x on a test forum since introduced but do not have the skills necessary or the time if I did to see all my existing forum features replaced. I've even downloaded the modified phpbb2 that the refugees are running and honestly it is more appealing to my needs than going forward with 3.1.x. Between these, my existing 3.1.14 seems the best. I've also started looking at everything out there by downloading and setting up other test forums. Honestly, what I'm looking at is their timelines, past and future, and two years between major updates is just too busy for me.

In trying to learn from all the writing here on this forum, there seems to be two groups of participants. Those that enjoy programming forum software as a vocation and those that are looking for forum software to support their vocation. I being of the latter want things to be safe but stable so that my time is spent pursuing that vocation.

I do hold that first group in high esteem as they have made it very easy for the second group to enjoy their work.

Pond Life
Registered User
Posts: 388
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:55 am

Re: Anyone considering becoming a 3.0.x refugee?

Post by Pond Life » Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:15 pm

Ranch Dog wrote:I do hold that first group in high esteem as they have made it very easy for the second group to enjoy their work.

Absolutely! Without the first group it's very unlikely that I would have a forum at all. I understand that they want to keep their work up to date and modern, and many among the second group want that too.

It's just not easy to switch when you've been running with such solid and secure software for many years and have adapted it to fit your precise needs. The MODs are not the biggest issue for me, most of what I want is being developed as extensions and I can do a few of the minor tweaks myself (even if editing the core files is not recommended it can still be done). The extra server load and the potential security/bug issues from external frameworks are a real concern for me though.

My site is busiest during the warmer months so I would not even think about converting until the winter. I won't be rushing to do it this year though unless a very compelling reason to do so crops up.

User avatar
kinerity
Registered User
Posts: 1151
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:00 am
Name: Kailey Truscott
Contact:

Re: Anyone considering becoming a 3.0.x refugee?

Post by kinerity » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:43 am

Ranch Dog wrote:making the change to 3.1.x will cost my users some of the features that they enjoy now
I manage 3 sites, 2 of which I was able to update to 3.1 since they didn't use that many MODs on 3.0 (all of which I was able to code myself as extensions). The 1 site still on 3.0 is so integrated into other parts of the site that it's simply not feasible to convert over. There's been code removed, code added, dependencies on other site functions, etc.

User avatar
Mess
Registered User
Posts: 985
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:37 am
Name: Kim

Re: Anyone considering becoming a 3.0.x refugee?

Post by Mess » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:10 am

Seeing that both Twig and Sympony have both more active developers and users than phpBB wouldn't it make the code even more secure and with less bugs?

User avatar
AmigoJack
Registered User
Posts: 4993
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:33 am
Location: グリーン ヒル ゾーン
Contact:

Re: Anyone considering becoming a 3.0.x refugee?

Post by AmigoJack » Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:52 pm

Mess wrote:more active developers [...] more secure and with less bugs
Too many cooks spoil the broth. And one idiot in the team can ruin the whole work. I already met persons that cause more work than they processed.

Ranch Dog
Registered User
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:20 am
Name: Michael

Re: Anyone considering becoming a 3.0.x refugee?

Post by Ranch Dog » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:17 pm

I didn't really mean to be a coding discussion, that is beyond my ability. Just looking at it as the end user.

Swanny
Registered User
Posts: 405
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2002 2:11 am
Location: Canada

Re: Anyone considering becoming a 3.0.x refugee?

Post by Swanny » Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:27 am

Being in that situation of having a bunch of mods that don't port over to the next major upgrade is the exact reason why I hardly ever use extensions/mods. I don't use anything major that really goes outside the core of phpBB because eventually you're going to get to that point where you need to stay behind or drop features to move forward.

I mainly just use cosmetic extensions now (move posters info to left side, add recent topics to home page at top, etc.) I realize modern extensions don't mess with the "core" phpBB.

VintageSlots
Registered User
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:14 pm

Re: Anyone considering becoming a 3.0.x refugee?

Post by VintageSlots » Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:57 am

Yep, I am a refugee.

Like my mods and the authors on some of them said they don't have the time to figure out the new version.

Very annoyed that the people who run phpbb decided to go down a route which put us in this situation.

I run several different boards and will not be moving to the new platform.

User avatar
AmigoJack
Registered User
Posts: 4993
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:33 am
Location: グリーン ヒル ゾーン
Contact:

Re: Anyone considering becoming a 3.0.x refugee?

Post by AmigoJack » Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:02 am

Pond Life wrote:what will happen when my hosting company updates php to a version that is no longer compatible
After all it's not a big deal to adapt all code parts to run for PHP5.6 or PHP7. I'd even start right away doing so, but we're co-hosting an old vB version that I already had to patch manually to be run on PHP5.4, and I have little interest in diving into that horrible code again to make it i.e. PHP7 compatible.

Ranch Dog
Registered User
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:20 am
Name: Michael

Re: Anyone considering becoming a 3.0.x refugee?

Post by Ranch Dog » Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:09 pm

Still holding out and loving life. Other than the melt down of Arvixe and a move to RDO, I haven't had to mess with my 3.0.14 at all. I'm actually enjoying my forums rather than tinkering with them constantly.

User avatar
nlcaldwell
Registered User
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:35 pm
Location: Washington, DC
Contact:

Re: Anyone considering becoming a 3.0.x refugee?

Post by nlcaldwell » Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:00 pm

I'm on 3.0.14, and have no intention of upgrading anytime soon. Currently have it running on php7 too, though I wouldn't recommend it to others because it's far from a trivial upgrade. The problem is phpBB relies a lot on the preg replace /e modifier, which has been removed in php7, for bbcodes. I managed to adapt a lot of the new bbcode code intended for phpBB 3.2 into phpBB 3.0.14, but still had to get rid of some custom bbcodes I was using (such as the popular spoiler tag mod).

Then there's a lot of edge cases I keep running into. A couple days ago, my site failed following a routine upgrade of php7 modules. Took me hours to pinpoint the cause: the way pass-by-reference was being handled had changed from previous versions of php, which caused a function in functions-template.php to fail.

Fortunately, php5.6 (which I believe 3.0.14 is completely compliant with) will receive security updates until December 2018, so there's no need to upgrade to php7 for now.

Swanny
Registered User
Posts: 405
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2002 2:11 am
Location: Canada

Re: Anyone considering becoming a 3.0.x refugee?

Post by Swanny » Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:46 am

Do you guys still have VCR's too? :lol:

Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: nou nou and 55 guests