Legal question

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Curious Artichoke
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Legal question

Post by Curious Artichoke » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:21 am

I don't know if this is the right forum but here I go...

When one of your admins grant admin status to someone, and doesn't ask or consult with the admin/mod staff, and then those new admins start making sock puppets and making them admins.... Is there some legal action we can take? The admin that did this is also set to founder, but we have recently revoked all their permissions and cleaned up their mess.

They didn't damage anything, but they did cause a lot of fights and problems. Our PHPBB forums are not a business/company or used for anything but a meeting place. We chased their socks around for a long time before we got rid of them all.

We would like to know if there is any kind of legal action or charges we can file on them, or is that just a stupid idea? People keep kicking around "cyber crimes" and CFAA violations.... it makes my head hurt. Are they full of it or on the right track?

Thanks for any help/advice you can offer.

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Toxyy
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Re: Legal question

Post by Toxyy » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:57 am

So you appointed an admin who went rogue and fixed all of his damage... what is a judge even going to rule? That things stay how they are?
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david63
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Re: Legal question

Post by david63 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:58 am

The moral there is not to make someone an Admin who you cannot trust and never make them a Founder.

It's a bit like giving somebody the keys to your house then complaining that they have run off with your TV.

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warmweer
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Re: Legal question

Post by warmweer » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:15 am

david63 wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:58 am
It's a bit like giving somebody the keys to your house then complaining that they have run off with your TV.
Well, it was either that or the wife ;) treading on dangerous ground here

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Mick
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Re: Legal question

Post by Mick » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:43 am

Why make other people admins anyway? If it's your board you don't want third parties messing with the layout. Moderators are good enough and even those with limited permissions.
warmweer wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:15 am
Well, it was either that or the wife
It would be my luck they'd swipe the TV and leave the wife :(
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EA117
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Re: Legal question

Post by EA117 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:28 pm

Toxyy wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:57 am
So you appointed an admin who went rogue and fixed all of his damage... what is a judge even going to rule? That things stay how they are?
Either that a law was broken, or that the admin committed a civil offense, such that a penalty must be paid.

He's wondering whether there is actual practical, achievable penalty for someone who did this.

I doubt it, unless the admin process involved a legally provable and enforceable contract. Since they didn't do anything nefarious in order to obtain the permissions they then used how they saw fit. They would need to be acting against some contract that forbade what they did, or to have "hacked" the site to obtained their permission in the first place. But I'm not a lawyer, and get to say this and then whistle-skip out of the room.

I'd say just learn from the situation and move on; anything more probably isn't going to be worth the additional time, money and aggravation, even if successful.

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Re: Legal question

Post by Toxyy » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:36 pm

You're not going to be paid anything for appointing an admin who went rogue, especially with no real damage done, on a website of all things.

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Re: Legal question

Post by EA117 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:20 pm

Toxyy wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:36 pm
You're not going to be paid anything for appointing an admin who went rogue, especially with no real damage done, on a website of all things.
The person who commits an offense pays the penalty. Understandably, especially if only a civil matter, that could include a monetary penalty. But not the use of "paid" that was intended in that sentence, for what its worth.

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Re: Legal question

Post by Curious Artichoke » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:26 am

Mostly we want to know if an admin who does this, and the admin whom he appointed who made the socks and was taking people off the ban list and other things without the consent of the others or the owners, did anything actually illegal.

If it is seriously illegal and maybe worth filing charges over on both of them, we was just wondering if its possible.

In our group discussions of course everyone has an opinion but no hard facts. Either it is illegal or it isn't and if it is..... what law was broken? Is it illegal for the admin to do as they please with that authority?

One of our group says since the admin in question was set to founder, he had the right to do anything he wanted and had no need to consult any of us or other founders.... he could make everyone an admin if he wanted and we would just to deal with our bad choices.

Some others swear what he and the other admin he made did was hacking and they committed a crime.

I am the actual owner/founder and I have no clue who is right. But I'd like to know if what they did was illegal and how, if it was at all.

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Lumpy Burgertushie
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Re: Legal question

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:39 am

as said above, since he did not gain access to the admin panel by hacking or without permission, then he did nothing illegal. you or someone made him a founder whether on purpose or by accident. therefore, he broke no law by doing the things he did that he had permissions set to be able to do.

just forget it and be more careful about who gets what permissions on your board in the future.

there should never really be any founder other than you as owner of the board.
in most cases you should only need a couple of admins other than your self unless your board is very large and or very busy etc.


luck,
robert

Curious Artichoke
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Re: Legal question

Post by Curious Artichoke » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:59 am

Ok thanks! His actions as an admin are on us for making poor life choices. :lol:

If we find he was sharing/giving out his login/password to his founder account, and the one who he gave it to used it to fiddle around in the system, are either of them committing a crime?

I can't see how, but I could be wrong.

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Lumpy Burgertushie
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Re: Legal question

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:24 am

I don't see what the crime could possibly be.
you are worrying way too much about this. just change all the passwords you need to. remove all the founder accounts except for yours. change the password for that account. remove all the admin accounts that you don't trust. force the remaining admins to change their passwords. change the database password, the ftp password, the hosting control panel password, etc. etc.


robert

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WelshPaul
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Re: Legal question

Post by WelshPaul » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:56 am

Nothing illegal about it.

Some of the boards I have worked on required I sign NDA agreements, CDA agreements etc. If you breach the terms, a civil case can be brought against the individual. I guess sharing a username and password would come under that agreement?!

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... agreements

Curious Artichoke
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Re: Legal question

Post by Curious Artichoke » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:54 pm

Thanks for the input... it helped.

Everything is set back to normal, one founder one admin no mods. It seems like everything is ok.

There was no NDA or contracts or anything but handshake and a thank you for helping. Lesson learned, learn to do it yourself.
:lol:

Ok one last maybe redundant question... If someone uses that admin password/login to get in and they were NOT made an admin to begin with (IE, just some random member who got their hands on a login/password for an admin/founder account) and uses it to get in and change settings ect... is that a crime?

Not that anyone is going to waste time and money to pursue it but.... is it a crime For random member X to use an admin password they found/was given thru the grapevine to log in as an admin and fiddle around? Half the group says that case is a hacking, the other half says no thats just our tough luck.

My thinking is, if we let a lose active password float around, thats our fault for not locking the doors. Again.. I could be wrong.

You guys were a lot of help, thank you so much!

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david63
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Re: Legal question

Post by david63 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:29 pm

I suspect that a lot would depend on how the random user acquired the login credentials. Whatever it is a very grey area and as you say not worth the time and money to persue

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