Finally some good news!!

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warmweer
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Re: Finally some good news!!

Post by warmweer » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:06 am

Mick wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:45 am
You cannot have a second referendum,
I fail to grasp why not. The referendum was faulty to start with but not even taking that into consideration; it's not as though the referendum was just yesterday and I'm sure politicians and policy makers can (re)formulate the questions/options so that it can be considered a different referendum) (they do it all the time anyway - and that's what elections are all about - policies are a volatile as hydrogen - and as explosive).
Mick wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:45 am
the problem is with the idiots charged with enforcing it.
No argument against that.

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Re: Finally some good news!!

Post by david63 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:38 am

warmweer wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:06 am
I fail to grasp why not.
Firstly there is the issue of the question and unless you have a straight "in/out" question it will be slanted one way or the other. Any more than two options will split the vote of one side (possibly both).

If it is an in/out and vote returns a "stay in" result do we then need to have another vote in three years time as a best of three because if the referendum was reversed we would be in a worse place than we are now.

Yes people can change their minds but that applies to everything in politics - we (normally) elect a parliament for five years and have to live with the consequences of that decision so, arguably, if there was to be another referendum it should be five years after the first one.

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Re: Finally some good news!!

Post by warmweer » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:02 am

david63 wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:38 am
Yes people can change their minds but that applies to everything in politics - we (normally) elect a parliament for five years and have to live with the consequences of that decision so, arguably, if there was to be another referendum it should be five years after the first one.
I'm not familiar enough with the UK system but generally parliament is the watchdog over the government and has an obligation in legislation (making the laws), representation (acting on behalf of voters and citizens), scrutiny (examining the government), and government formation.
The part I marked in red leaves an opening to question actions by the government which may be contrary to "current" public opinion. In this sense the House of Commons is doing exactly what it should do and IIAC it can revoke the result of a referendum if it has grounds to consider it outdated.

Again, I wouldn't bet anything on my interpretation being correct (certainly not when it comes to foreign legislation) but Brexit is serious business and the consequences are immense so my opinion (I call it common sense) is that the current situation provides enough validation to seriously question the path the government is (blindly) following.

Added at 15:22 (14:22 UK time)

OMG: 2 and a half years ago, I was under the impression that the referendum wasn't legally binding but purely informative (as referendums usually are). Later on (don't know exactly when, nor by whom) I was told that the referendum was legally binding, and even though I doubted it, I blindly accepted that as fact.

Just now had a phone conversation with a UK acquaintance and pointed her to this discussion and she told me that the referendum is not legally binding. So I searched but unfortunately can't find any UK legal information. I did find a Wikipedia Wikipedia page page which, although not from a legally binding source, is probably as good as it gets (quite an interesting read actually).

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Re: Finally some good news!!

Post by Crizzo » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:35 pm

I will just drop a quote from twitter:
The year is 2192. The British Prime Minister visits Brussels to ask for an extension of the Brexit deadline. No one remembers where this tradition originated, but every year it attracts many tourists from all over the world.
:D
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Re: Finally some good news!!

Post by Dan Stylez » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:41 pm

warmweer wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:02 am
OMG: 2 and a half years ago, I was under the impression that the referendum wasn't legally binding but purely informative (as referendums usually are). Later on (don't know exactly when, nor by whom) I was told that the referendum was legally binding, and even though I doubted it, I blindly accepted that as fact.
I don't think think it is legally binding, at their recent party holiday camp the Liberal Democrats leader suggested if they won a general election they would scrap Brexit without having another referendum.

Mind you it's all a bit mad, what is allowed today may be illegal tomorrow.

Crizzo wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:35 pm
I will just drop a quote from twitter:
The year is 2192. The British Prime Minister visits Brussels to ask for an extension of the Brexit deadline. No one remembers where this tradition originated, but every year it attracts many tourists from all over the world.
:D
:lol: :lol: :lol: that will probably turn out being true.

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Re: Finally some good news!!

Post by Crizzo » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:47 pm

The other thing, is...i think they should ask the people again. Because:
I'm not saying there wasn't a democratic mandate for the brexit at the time. I'm just saying, if I narrowly decided to order fish at a restaurant that was know for chicken, but said it was happy to offer fish, and so far i've been waiting three hours, and two chefs who promised to cook the fish had quit, and the third one is promising to deliver the fish in the next five minutes whether it's cooked or not, or indeed still alive, and all the waiting staff have spent the last few hours arguing amongst themselvers about whether I wanted battered cod, grilled salmon, jellied eels or dolphin kebabs, and if large parts of the restaurant apperared to be on fire but no one was paying to it because they were all arguing about fish, I would quite like, just once, to be asked if I definitely still wanted the fish.
:geek:
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Re: Finally some good news!!

Post by P_I » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:55 pm

Crizzo wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:35 pm
I will just drop a quote from twitter:
The year is 2192. The British Prime Minister visits Brussels to ask for an extension of the Brexit deadline. No one remembers where this tradition originated, but every year it attracts many tourists from all over the world.
:D
:lol: :lol: Made my day!

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Re: Finally some good news!!

Post by warmweer » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:58 pm

Crizzo wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:35 pm
The year is 2192. The British Prime Minister visits Brussels to ask for an extension of the Brexit deadline. No one remembers where this tradition originated, but every year it attracts many tourists from all over the world.
Fabulous. :lol: :lol:
A strong candidate for a signature.

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Re: Finally some good news!!

Post by Gumboots » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:03 pm

warmweer wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:51 pm
I still can't fathom how the so-called civilised world can be "mislead" by campaigns full of incorrect, even outright false information. One would think the historic events leading to the World Wars (and other crises) would serve as an example on how to NOT let a country be governed by narcissistic demagogs. I'm a firm believer in democracy but lately I've started to have doubts about the "demos" part.
[Anne Elk mode] My theory...[/Anne Elk mode]

I think the problem is that most people pay no attention to history, and that those who lived through the last iteration of this crap are mostly dead now. IOW, it has been long enough that it has escaped most people's notice. They're dimly aware that bad things happened ages ago, but don't see any real connection between that and today. So, they just go with their instincts. If it sounds good, they're for it.

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Re: Finally some good news!!

Post by canonknipser » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:05 pm

Gumboots wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:03 pm
ages ago,
Quite often "ages" is in the context a mayfly (ephemera) would use it ...

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Re: Finally some good news!!

Post by Gumboots » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:39 pm

Interesting situation in Australia at the moment. The short version is that the conservative press have screwed themselves, by backing "anti-terror" legislation over a period of years, to the point where they are now in danger themselves.

Not that anyone could possibly ever predicted that outcome. It's never happened before. :roll:

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Re: Finally some good news!!

Post by warmweer » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:10 pm

JimA wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:39 am
Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:12 pm
the people that keep calling him a liar can not produce any proof/examples when called on it
Really? ;)
Another one for the list?
according to the president, an on-site DNA test confirmed his (Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi's) identity.
a) Quite daring elite troops who perform DNA testing onsite (onsite being deep enemy territory).
b) How long does a DNA test take?

Oh, off course, how could I have missed that: it must have been the secret advanced testing methods (bear in mind he's talking about a DNA test providing proof of identity which is going way further than ancestry or presence of complex nitrogenous base sequences which (could) indicate genetic links.

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Re: Finally some good news!!

Post by Tastenplayer » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:15 pm

Crizzo wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:47 pm
The other thing, is...i think they should ask the people again. Because:
I'm not saying there wasn't a democratic mandate for the brexit at the time. I'm just saying, if I narrowly decided to order fish at a restaurant that was know for chicken, but said it was happy to offer fish, and so far i've been waiting three hours, and two chefs who promised to cook the fish had quit, and the third one is promising to deliver the fish in the next five minutes whether it's cooked or not, or indeed still alive, and all the waiting staff have spent the last few hours arguing amongst themselvers about whether I wanted battered cod, grilled salmon, jellied eels or dolphin kebabs, and if large parts of the restaurant apperared to be on fire but no one was paying to it because they were all arguing about fish, I would quite like, just once, to be asked if I definitely still wanted the fish.
:geek:
👍👍👍

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Re: Finally some good news!!

Post by Dan Stylez » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:59 pm

warmweer wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:10 pm
JimA wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:39 am
Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:12 pm
the people that keep calling him a liar can not produce any proof/examples when called on it
Really? ;)
Another one for the list?
according to the president, an on-site DNA test confirmed his (Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi's) identity.
a) Quite daring elite troops who perform DNA testing onsite (onsite being deep enemy territory).
b) How long does a DNA test take?

Oh, off course, how could I have missed that: it must have been the secret advanced testing methods (bear in mind he's talking about a DNA test providing proof of identity which is going way further than ancestry or presence of complex nitrogenous base sequences which (could) indicate genetic links.
He also said they brought some of Bad Daddy's body parts back, so I suspect they can do some testing on that too.

In all fairness well done to Donald Trump today, regardless of what lies he does or doesn't tell - if he gave the go ahead to go and take out this guy he's done the world a favour.

He was chuffed to bits in his press conference and very detailed, I just hope that if there are any ISIS supporters tucked away in America that it doesn't provoke them.

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Re: Finally some good news!!

Post by warmweer » Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:09 pm

Dan Stylez wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:59 pm
He also said they brought some of Bad Daddy's body parts back, so I suspect they can do some testing on that too.
That would be the logical thing to do, but the time frame (since the raid was held on Saturday night US time) for a confirming DNA analysis is (more than a trifle) short.

And yes, the world has been done some good but giving the go ahead order probably wasn't much of a brainteaser (his predecessor has already paved the way). I do appreciate the US taking this matter into their own hands (and he did give credit to other parties providing/sharing intelligence).

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