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KevC
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Re: The Coronavirus Topic

Post by KevC »

axe70 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:09 pm
it is true that you can't even see a virus into microscope? It is true or not?
No. With the correct kind of microscope, yes you can see a virus particle.

You're wholly missing the point about masks though. The virus is not just on its own in the air, it's in a droplet of saliva or mucus from the nose or throat. Although the mask pore size is too small to stop the virus on its own, it's big enough to stop the virus in a droplet. Look for a set of images by Dr Richard Davis on Twitter and you'll see the difference it makes (ah EA117 just posted it too).

You say there will never be a vaccine but there already is. It's in clinical trials right now.In fact there are around 100 different vaccines that attack different parts of the transmission pathway. Each person is entitled to decide whether they want to take it but they should do so from a clinically informed point of view, not just 'stuff they read on the internet'.
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Re: The Coronavirus Topic

Post by david63 »

KevC wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:13 pm
Each person is entitled to decide whether they want to take it
There is an argument that it should not be optional (except for medical reasons), but that is a whole new debate.
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Re: The Coronavirus Topic

Post by thecoalman »

david63 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:23 pm
There is an argument that it should not be optional (except for medical reasons), but that is a whole new debate.
That can be touchy subject but personally even if there is risk with vaccine I'd suggest taking it. I know if you were able to ask my Grandmother who recently passed 1 month shy of 101st birthday she would not have kind words for refusing it. She lost two siblings to disease early on in life and of course saw many people she knew die from diseases that can now be prevented with vaccines.

That said I have a very big issue with the government requiring you inject something into your body.
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Re: The Coronavirus Topic

Post by warmweer »

axe70 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:09 pm
the aids behavior is exactly the same, even if it is another virus. In fact, there are not vaccine for aids.
The Aids behaviour exactly the same?
Where do you get that quack information?
The ID in AIDS is the abbreviation of Immune Deficiency specifically because the immune system becomes deficient as in NOT WORKING. HIV infected people actually die because of complications caused by lack of immune reactions. (This is not completely true but I'ld need a couple of pages to explain what happens).
In many corona patients, the immune system actually overreacts which is also detrimental. And if there are preconditions, especially pulmonary, the body can't take up enough oxygen to produce energy needed to repair damage done. (again, not entirely correct but it is a major factor)
axe70 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:09 pm
It is also true that at this date, aids killed more people then the coronavirus:
Year 2020
841,001Deaths caused by HIV/AIDS
514,901 by coronavirus
So what? Where and what is the real pandemic? I know it's name, it is WHO and maybe, all other countries, like china, that are financing this criminal organization.
Interpreting statistics apparently isn't your strong point.
Coronavirus : as of 2020 - is it treatable?: not as yet (that's 6 months of no cure nor vaccine)
AIDS : ± 1983 - treatable since ± 1997 (that's 14 years of no cure)
Also you can have as much contact as you want with an HIV infected person without becoming infected yourself, as long as you don't have unprotected sex or come into contact with infected blood or (some) body fluids (but HIV is not transmitted through breathing).
BTW many, many people were infected with HIV through receiving blood, a transmission which has been almost 100% excluded since proper blood screening is done).
axe70 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:09 pm
There will be a vaccine, I have no doubt about that, and seeing current progress it might even be available ahead of expectations (although I wouldn't bet on that just yet).
Yes Yes, but it will be for you. Please leave me do whatever i like for my health, my grandma teach is sufficient to me. Look that also, virologists are not wearing masks normally, if not inside a laboratory. They keep distance and clean their hands. Because as said, this is it what you have to do since the first day in this stupid world.
Selon lui, trouver un vaccin pour vaincre ce virus est un « un défi idiot ».
https://fr.theepochtimes.com/coronaviru ... 53207.html
Many italian's virologists say the same and many other all around the world. Of course, not these stupids of the WHO that are ll around the world in the mediastream. They are here to change your life. Remember this, not to save you.
I have no idea which point you're trying to make here and consider this a senseless rant.
axe70 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:09 pm
Any pulmonologist knows that heparin should be administered to those suffering from pneumonia, and betamethasone. Why did they not give these things to coronavirus patients, causing them to die after they were very serious and took them to the hospital. You know the answer to this?
Heparin is used when the situation requires it, in fact many things have been used all over the world, some detrimental, some with positive effect.
The scientific method uses analysis, cross checks, replications, in other words: controlled experiments in order to be able to make the correct conclusions. Covid was a speed train and caught many unaware (and 1 particular guy still remains unaware, or is in denial).
Read this Guideline and perhaps you'll get a better idea of what is being done.
BTW this is a revised version (June 19) and there have been a few earlier (a lot even) and there are updated directives weekly if not more.

Ow almost forgot
it is true that you can't even see a virus into microscope? It is true or not?
Since you mention "a" virus: your statement is false.
There are viruses, in fact a whole virus family (Mimiviridae) with almost 1 micrometer diameter, and these even can be seen with optical microscopes (not the one you have at home) and easily with not too advanced digital microscopes. Granted, there aren't many and an electron microscope is needed for most.

Took too long to write this, got logged out and noticed that KevC also noticed virus/microscope question (with an insinuated incorrect answer), but I'm leaving it.


edited: removed an impolite remark + spelling errors and clarified a section
Last edited by warmweer on Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Coronavirus Topic

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thecoalman wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:46 pm
That said I have a very big issue with the government requiring you inject something into your body.
That is the rub, isn't it. Since part of that is perspective. "The government is making me" is certainly a clear way to look at it. And since "the government" has actually done some shitty stuff before, the motivation for everything is legitimately in question.

While "none of this -- the government or anything else -- exists unless our society wanted it to" is another perspective. People aren't living marooned on an island where their choices only affect themselves. And while ideology is more subjective and "able to survive even though we disagree", biology is less so. Making it not unreasonable to expect that if you're wanting to be part of and stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the other members of this society that we're enjoying all the benefits of, then you might need to take a few proactive steps to help protect that society, and "not just yourself."
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Re: The Coronavirus Topic

Post by warmweer »

The flu vaccine? I don't take it and I wouldn't force it on anyone but I do recommend it for those at risk.
The corona vaccine? I'm not sure about that yet. I'm taking precautions hoping that I won't get infected and if I do, I'm hoping my immune system can cope with it. I might even have been infected with corona beginning of March because I had flu-like symptoms and didn't feel well for almost a week (longer than previous cases) and have been experiencing shortness of breath since then, but I suspect that is due to lack of physical activity and lack of sleep).
However when it comes to the child vaccinations - I would enforce those. As a responsible parent one shouldn't let the kids go through those.
Actually only the polio vaccination is mandatory (barring medical reasons).
https://www.expatica.com/be/healthcare/ ... um-105159/

I had mumps when I was 32 - that was 3 days of pure hell and I wished I had it as a child (there was no vaccine yet).
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Re: The Coronavirus Topic

Post by axe70 »

Interpreting statistics apparently isn't your strong point.
yeah, i just see numbers
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://www.worldometers.info/
Probably or maybe i have more experience of you. I know very well how aids works, that's different by a flu, but it is also a virus. Maybe my Eng is not good like your. So it is clear that the AIDS works in another way, but the fat is that it is a virus, and these are number at this date, compared to coronavirus, year 2020:

41,910,341 aids infected
842,600 deaths
I have no idea which point you're trying to make here and consider this a senseless rant.
Because you live into another continent and world probably. The famous virologist mentioned/linked before, say you that it is idiot to try to find out a vaccine for something that will change along the time. But said that, when the vaccine is ready, inject it, and stay safe it you think it will give you immunity. Make happy killy billy.
May do not forget to take distance, and do not put your finger into your nose, after a visit into a public filthy bathroom.
Coronavirus dimension:
100-150 nm in diameter (about 600 times smaller than the diameter of a human hair)
The stupid mask will not protect you by nothing. From where the air you breathe enter? Wearing a professional mask all the day? It is a joke? You know how professional masks works, isn't it? Take distance.

Also i would like to remember you @warmweer, that my grandma taught me hygienic behaviors.
This is not completely true but I'ld need a couple of pages to explain what happens - and in your case it would be wasted energy
Ok sir, my grandma taught me also education. Despite your explain, i remain with my opinion.
Because it is not my opinion, I act like a normal person with at least some brain.
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Re: The Coronavirus Topic

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie »

actually you are not acting like a normal person with a brain.
a normal person would listen to others when they explain things to you that you don't understand.

as was said, this virus is not airborne. it can be transmitted by someone infected coughing or sneezing or even talking close to you. the droplets of saliva etc. that you emit from your nose or mouth carry the the infection and can travel a short distance but the droplets can not travel through even a simple fabric type mask.

so, you better hope that your grandma and yourself do not get close to someone that is infected and sneezes on you.

robert
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Re: The Coronavirus Topic

Post by John connor »

axe70 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:53 pm
I know very well how aids works...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JizzeERcZjg
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Re: The Coronavirus Topic

Post by John connor »

A subject as complex and subjective as this should require some sort of rubric in the OP. :lol:
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Re: The Coronavirus Topic

Post by axe70 »

Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:37 am
actually you are not acting like a normal person with a brain.
a normal person would listen to others when they explain things to you that you don't understand.

as was said, this virus is not airborne. it can be transmitted by someone infected coughing or sneezing or even talking close to you. the droplets of saliva etc. that you emit from your nose or mouth carry the the infection and can travel a short distance but the droplets can not travel through even a simple fabric type mask.

so, you better hope that your grandma and yourself do not get close to someone that is infected and sneezes on you.

robert
Robert, since i respect others, of course i wear a mask when going into closed public places, also because anti-covid measures require it or you cannot enter into any public place. I agree with. That's ok! But there is also a limit i think. Do you think parks, beaches, or generally public open spaces, require you to wear a mask, because if not, you'll go to infect someone else? This is crazy. Many are driving their car wearing gloves and masks, alone inside their shitty car, because scared by mediastream propaganda, and without an appropriate and minimal education. I look to those people for what they are: stupid martians.

About Italy, i can say this to you all (since you do not have understand the situation): actual government that is china trend, jailed us for 3 month into home (like china). until 4000 euro of penalty if you where found out of home, without a valid reason (that was not including a walk, if not within 200mt from home). Arrest until 12 years for all those that where find out of home, and recognized as contagious.
If this is normal to you, let me say that to me, the abnormal are you instead. You can explain what you want.

What you are able to sell, in the name of the health security? What of your freedom?
I do not sell nothing in the name of health security, that no one can give me really.
so, you better hope that your grandma and yourself do not get close to someone that is infected and sneezes on you
well, i hope for anyone that will not happen: my reaction would be really bad, and not because scared by the corona flu, but because i hate uneducated. I would beat his ass really hard believe me.
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Re: The Coronavirus Topic

Post by warmweer »

axe70 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:58 am
About Italy, i can say this to you all (since you do not have understand the situation): actual government that is china trend, jailed us for 3 month into home (like china). until 4000 euro of penalty if you where found out of home, without a valid reason (that was not including a walk, if not within 200mt from home). Arrest until 12 years for all those that where find out of home, and recognized as contagious.
If this is normal to you, let me say that to me, the abnormal are you instead. You can explain what you want.
Italy was the first European country to experience the full scale of the infection and was totally unprepared (and that is not putting any blame or stigma on Italy - it 's inevitable that there would be first country in Europe or anywhere). The death toll became apparent some 10 days later but by that time the wintertourists returning to their home area or country had unknowingly spread it and the rest of Europe was bound to follow. Luckily the government never tried to downplay the situation and took drastic measures.
A perception from outside Italy
Say what you want but it could have been a lot worse even.
As to comparing the government of Italy to that of China (and the measures taken): don't be ridiculous.
The Chinese system is authoritarian and measures taken in China were a lot more drastic than those in Italy (and in the rest of Europe). The Chinese measures would never have been accepted in Europe. Actually the measures taken in Spain were even more drastic than in Italy.
Fact is that the situation required those drastic measures (something a certain "world leader" didn't understand, and actively downplayed - even actively hindering the work of the National Institutes - with the known result).
Would another approach have worked? Difficult to say: Sweden tried to handle it in a completely different way and initially it seemed to work but even with the advantage of low population density, it hasn't done any better (and the balance still has to be made anyway).

It's easy to criticise (and certainly after the fact) but if you think have a better approach (and there are many who think that), contact the relevant institutions with your proposals (I have - not specifically regarding measures, but concerning communication).
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Re: The Coronavirus Topic

Post by axe70 »

So, it is normal to get 4000 euro of penalty and/or 12 years of jail, that to you, is nothing in the respect of china, where people is only arrested, and may executed. Asking myself if you are chinese, or ridiculous. Because no other normal people can think like you.

About Italy ... :) You do not live here, you have not see what we seen. You are just eating what mainstream passed to you.
I assume you even do not speak Italian. Simply you do not have understand. First of all, Italy have spread nothing, since the first case that infected italy was coming from Germany. But they say, and this is like to affirm something that nobody can say for sure. It is a stupid consideration. The patient 0. Please. Bullshits. The problem, like +- ever, come out from china
You know that the majority of deaths in Italy are all coming from hospices, where old people leaved to become serious compromised, then went to the hospital, then after dying without giving him heparin (this is what many of the doctors in the ward say) due to the illegal decrees that violated the Constitution, they burned the bodies, without doing an autopsy, charging deaths to covid, and sending the cremation bill to the family. Just like in China they send the cost of the bullet to the family.

Your history is based on fake news, and beware that it is not finished here, your WHO and killy billy friends are preparing more bad things, and governments where there are people like you, are the danger for this world. Because they are ridiculous.
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Re: The Coronavirus Topic

Post by warmweer »

axe70 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:00 pm
About Italy ... :) You do not live here, you have not see what we seen. You are just eating what mainstream passed to you.
I assume you even do not speak Italian.
I have to admit I'm at fault with regards to speaking Italian, perhaps I should blame my parents. Neither did I know that that it was a requirement for being allowed to express an opinion or to present data.
As to eating mainstream data: your tone has a high level of populism - a common deterrent to civilised discussion.
axe70 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:00 pm
First of all, Italy have spread nothing, since the first case that infected italy was coming from Germany.
I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. I never said that Italy spread anything, but I said that Italy was the first European country to experience the full scale of the infection. Perhaps you misunderstood because it wasn't written in Italian?
Apart from that, even though Italy didn't "spread" it, the virus is deemed to have reached Spain from Italy. Read carefully and look up the word "deemed" if necessary.
Ultimately the virus originated in China and China is thus the source but it doesn't change the fact that in many countries the virus did not enter from China but from another place.
And without pointing a finger at Italy, the first cases in Belgium (at least that was the outcome of a trace) were tourists returning from a ski holiday in Italy who were repatriated because of the risk of corona, and were all grouped for repatriation, in a hotel where apparently corona had been diagnosed, but that information had not been communicated. Those people then returned to Belgium on a bus, together with other tourists, and nobody thought about isolation.
Again, I'm not pointing a finger, but it shows that the virus travels invisibly.

As to the measures taken by the various countries: these will all be evaluated but one fact is clear: the lockdown in the countries has saved thousands and the stats show that where social distancing and masks (in certain places) were not enforced, the virus had a playground.
Concerning the treatment patients received, I only have reliable data about the country I live in (and of the Netherlands) and I doubt you are in a position to objectively evaluate the procedures followed in Italy (perhaps I'm wrong about that).

edited: spelling mistakes but there are probably more
Last edited by warmweer on Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Coronavirus Topic

Post by axe70 »

perhaps I'm wrong about that
No, i'm sorry, you are wrong +- about all. But it is not your fail.
I do not mean that to have an opinion you need to be Italian, it would be stupid to think, or that i need to live in USA to give an opinion. I built in mind (not only me, i listen to virologists, scientists, doctors, and even historians) a movie that is not the one presented to you by the mainstream propaganda.
I'm sorry, i must repeat that should had have seen what we seen and live here the experience. Police, military all around. And all the rest before mentioned. Are you joking? More then half of the Italian population is now feeling like this, after some like me may have try to warn them since the begin of this disaster, excluded Democrats (yeah! the actual virus!) and Movimento 5 Stelle, that are fucking stupids, animals without a normal brain.
I must repeat, that was a German man the first case reported that infected in Italy. But after, they discovered that the coronavirus was around in Italy, and maybe elsewhere, since October. It is an evidence analyzing water of this period. So what you heard about where it start, are only fakes news.

So resuming, you believe that this is normal
So, it is normal to get 4000 euro of penalty and/or 12 years of jail, that to you, is nothing in the respect of china, where people is only arrested, and may executed
and that in the name of your sanitary safety, they could jail you into home like this?
Isn't it? You agree?
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