Reading, writing and arithmetic

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John connor
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Reading, writing and arithmetic

Post by John connor »

Okay, not so much the reading and arithmetic part, but the writing part. I've been a member of various forums (boards) all across the Internet since circa 2006 and I always see my fair share of posters that have a major lack of writing ability. Actually, is it correct now a days to say writing or typing ability since this is computer related? On a forum I'm a member I just saw a post that looked like it was written by a ten year old. I just shake my head and scroll on. I typically refuse to help people with their computer issues or what ever if they can't even type worth a damn from the get go. Not only that, but this person probably wouldn't even understand one iota of what I was telling them. I've been there done that and found it to be a huge waste of time and in the process went bald.

Now I'm not the best writer/typist in the sense of perfect sentence structure, grammar, etc, but at least I try and for the most part I'm able to convey what I'm trying to say. What I find especially shocking is that this isn't an issue where English is not their native language, that issue I can understand. These are Americans that can't type/write for crap. I shun to think how old they are. I just saw on the news that places like Baltimore or other cites spend at least $16,000 per child and despite that they are not grade-level proficient in reading, writing and arithmetic. That's down right sad and I think our future is at peril because of it.

Now I dropped out of high school my sophomore year to work with my dad as a custodian for about a year. Then one day my mom discovered a place called Job Corp and so I went there and first got a GED and then high school diploma. Never having stepped foot in a college or university. Now it seems a lot of kids these days who are in fact in college don't know crap about basic civics questions, history, science, etc. These so-called places of higher education take your money and preach to you their disdain for America, capitalism, Conservatism, etc then go on to charge you so much money in tuition and books that you'll be paying that crap off until retirement. Then I just shake my head when I hear a lot of these kids don't even know what they want to do. The smart thing to do would be to take classes that pertain for a carrier you want to be in and at the same time have a backup carrier choice.

At any rate, here's a great video called Stupid In America. Behold the truth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koWkSpbsOUM
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Re: Reading, writing and arithmetic

Post by thecoalman »

I'll be the first to admit my grammar skills are lacking however vocabulary, comprehension and other skills are another story.

There was a poster on this one forum I was member of who's command of the English language was outstanding. He was able to write the most beautifully written words you could imagine, the problem he had was no command of substance for his words. On the other end of the spectrum there was a poster on my own forum who's spelling and grammar was atrociuos however his knowledge of the topic was difficult to beat. I'll take knowledge over grammar skills any day.

One thing to be aware of especially on a site like this English may not be someone's first language. The other thing is they may also have reading/writing disability. Be careful who you are criticizing because you may be criticizing someone with a handicap or someone who understands two languages while you only understand one.

Last but not least my hat goes off to the team and forum members here where English is second language. I can only wish to be able to write their language fluently.
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Re: Reading, writing and arithmetic

Post by AmigoJack »

John connor wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:41 am
now a days
I was always under the impression that this is wrong and it only exists as one word, but https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/now_a_days tells otherwise.
John connor wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:41 am
what ever
This is wrong - you can only mean https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whatever while "what ever" is correct rather by chance (as in "love what ever exists").
John connor wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:41 am
down right
This is wrong - you can only mean https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/downright while "down right" would change the sense drastically (as in "you have to shove it down right").
John connor wrote:I typically refuse to ... if they can't even type worth a damn from the get go
I would have never imagined telling this to you, but we're very similar at that point. Only that I'm even more critical (as in: why has "U S Of A" a big letter O? Why are abbreviations like "etc." not used with a trailing dot?) and English is not my mother tongue. One can also tell whoever is only "using" his native language but never thought about it in detail and thus lacks knowing how and why it is structured like that will make the same and more mistakes in foreign languages, including faulty communication because of wrong knowledge/understanding. But if you're confident in your own language then foreign languages are easier to understand in general, even if letters differ.

The great rise of stupidity - my theory about this: it was always there, but 30 years ago it was just kept in the shadows. As of today everybody is easily entertained and satisfied with it: using a smartphone to only surf social networks or playing silly games, using a PC to waste your life on endless network games, watching TV to let others brainwash you into thinking there are shows which aren't scripted... And people can easily manifest their opinion into texts to be spread worldwide. We just see it nowadays much more what already existed back then, and it also shows lackings of basic knowledge. Few are aware how ambiguous their texts are and the generic response is "everybody understands what I mean". And to be fair: most of those texts aren't worth to be kept for the future. (For a long time I suspected mobiles/cell phones and smartphones to make people dumb, but now I think it just boosts their lack of improvement.) I'm also happy enough people are bound to social networks and their smartphone bubble life, as then they're most likely not in positions to endanger lives or make likewise mistakes.

As a programmer I encounter often manuals, texts, code comments with huge mistakes, but it's hard to bring it in relation to the code quality: I've experienced all permutations of it. However, a slight trend is: when the website already has rather many mistakes then expect poor code and non-existent support. But who should notice that if the vast majority does the same mistakes?


Bottom line: people's brains are limited - hopefully when writing and calculus are off they still have other talents.
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Re: Reading, writing and arithmetic

Post by warmweer »

AmigoJack wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:46 pm
John connor wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:41 am
now a days
I was always under the impression that this is wrong and it only exists as one word, but https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/now_a_days tells otherwise.
Wiktionary doesn't qualify as an officially recognised source.
I was also under the impression that only "nowadays" is correct English and my dictionaries (US and UK) + DU-EN and EN-DU only confirm that.
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. ... now+a+days
https://chambers.co.uk/search/?query=no ... title=21st
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nowadays

However:
searching for now-a-days or "now a days" does come up with results (from unofficial sources) stating that it is correct.

I'll stick to "nowadays"
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Re: Reading, writing and arithmetic

Post by Lumpy Burgertushie »

I would think that nowdays instead of nowadays would be the correct way to say it but hey, what do I know.

I agree about stupidity just being more obvious than in the past but I also thing it is more prevalent than in the past. I do believe that education ( at least in the US ) has been failing for a long time.
people are graduating college with the reading and comprehension below high school levels.

People are not taught critical thinking skills any longer and a total lack of common sense seems to
be rampant in the world.

robert
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John connor
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Re: Reading, writing and arithmetic

Post by John connor »

Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:15 pm
People are not taught critical thinking skills any longer and a total lack of common sense seems to
be rampant in the world.
I have several motto's and one of them is: "you can't teach common sense in school. You're born with it."

Like a great natural born leader, or artistic genius, etc. When I was a fire fighter explorer and reading many books on becoming a fire fighter, they always said that common sense was a trait to be had if you wanted to be a fire fighter. Perfect example of this would be someone throwing water on a very hot fire. Well, the water would turn into instant steam and thereby boil your lungs once you breathed it in. Most people probably never think of that. It's one of the reasons why you wear an SCBA (Self Contained Breathing Apparatus). The other of course is that black smoke from a fire is extremely toxic. Believe me when I tell you it can get mighty dark in a fire and you'll die of smoke inhalation before being burned.

Speaking of bad writing ability. People often incorporate SMS texting abbreviations into their board writing. They'll use the letter U for the word you or my biggest pet peeve, the letter N for the word and. It's three lousy letters! You use the letter N?!
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Re: Reading, writing and arithmetic

Post by warmweer »

John connor wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:28 pm
I have several motto's and one of them is: "you can't teach common sense in school. You're born with it."
That's a misconception.
A person (or animal in general) is born with instincts and a certain ability to learn from experience. The ability to have common sense is a vague concept and depends on how the brain evolves during growing up. School teaches you how to use your brain and as all human being are different, some need more "teaching" than others, or other teaching methods. The "common sense" won't prevent a toddler from picking up a glowing piece of firewood or from wading in too deep water because the toddler doesn't realise the danger - he can't about in the future yet.
Most people are born with an initial ability to "learn" but just as physical development, mental development depends on what the genes have provided you with and on stimulation. The brain needs some pushing and teaching involves giving the necessary information and forcing the students to evaluate situations in which previously acquired information could be useful in solving the "problem". Without that stimulation the basic "common sense" which is nothing more than instinct won't evolve towards analytic thinking. It's the eternal nature <> nurture concept.
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Re: Reading, writing and arithmetic

Post by thecoalman »

warmweer wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:01 pm
A person (or animal in general) is born with instincts and a certain ability to learn from experience.
Too many kids with not enough experience doing things, they can certainly type into phone fast. Young relative in his early 20's, gave him a shovel to dig a hole and he didn't know how to use the shovel. I was astounded he never even seen anyone using a shovel. He was jabbing the ground with it, didn't know to stand on it to push it in. I was waiting for him to pull his phone out to look it up.
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Re: Reading, writing and arithmetic

Post by warmweer »

thecoalman wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:24 pm
Too many kids with not enough experience doing things, they can certainly type into phone fast.
But without autocomplete and autocorrect it would be incomprehensible. :lol:
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Re: Reading, writing and arithmetic

Post by AmigoJack »

John connor wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:28 pm
several motto's
Oh, that's another great one: plural with apostroph. Also one can easily spot an American by his habit of adding a possessive apostroph and an s to every business name (even if the business is non-family driven or doesn't has that suffix to begin with): Aldi('s), Wal-Mart('s)... There's even an article about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-form

There goes precision: being able to distinguish plural from possession. In other languages this inability/mistake also happens.

In all fairness: 25+ years might have gone since I used a shovel... But it also never happened that I once used roller skates. I was familiar with using dial plate telephones and typewriters - both helped me to understand how it worked. Nowadays you just push buttons or don't - as if life is just a big stupid test.
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Re: Reading, writing and arithmetic

Post by JimA »

Lumpy Burgertushie wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:15 pm
People are not taught critical thinking skills any longer and a total lack of common sense seems to be rampant in the world.
John Connor wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:47 pm
Now it seems a lot of kids these days who are in fact in college don't know crap about basic civics questions, history, science, etc.

Honestly, I hear these kinds of statements so often from older people about younger people. I still see myself as being relatively young (in my early twenties) and I am also still a student currently in college (university). I really wonder where you guys base your opinion's on and why you would generalize an entire generation and talk/put them down so easily.

My experience having been at university for the last six years is that the most important thing they teach us is to constantly keep an open mind and a critical attitude towards everything in the world. That is my experience both with students from my own country along with international students. We get taught a lot of history, basic knowledge and universities are especially focused a lot on a scientific approach to knowledge in the world. I honestly cannot see where the idea comes from that young people are lazy, less interested in content and "everything used to be better 20 years ago". Everywhere I look around me I see hard-working ambitious people who want to be the best version of themselves and want to be involved in the world in a responsible and sustainable way.

What is notable is that younger people (especially highly-educated ones) are generally more liberal as opposed to the more conservative older generation. I did not make this up, plenty of research and statistics are available for it, and you see it all across the world. What is a bit annoying to me is that in many cases this is used as an argument for the statements such as the ones I quoted above and it is just not true. Just because some people (or a group of people) have a different opinion / worldview than you does not mean they haven't (or can't) think about issues in a critical way. It just means that they have a differing opinion, respect that.
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Re: Reading, writing and arithmetic

Post by 3Di »

Yeah, I do agree. ^^

Me being 56 I am tired to read such statements. Often pedantic.
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Re: Reading, writing and arithmetic

Post by Talk19Zehn »

;) I think I've read this somewhere and at some point....
Spelling is freeware, which means you can use it for free. On the other hand, it is not open source, which means you cannot change it or publish it in a modified form.
Last edited by Talk19Zehn on Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reading, writing and arithmetic

Post by 3Di »

Okay so what?
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Re: Reading, writing and arithmetic

Post by Talk19Zehn »

Edit my post: Quote forgotten.
3Di wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:51 pm
Okay so what?
I didn't understand this question.
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