Some Energy Saving Tips

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thecoalman
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Re: Some Energy Saving Tips

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OlivierW wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:04 pm
Maybe @thecoalman knows and will explain us :)

You are creating a vacuum seal. If you had a piece of glass laying flat with a piece of plastic on top and water between them. If you grabbed the plastic in the middle and pulled it's not coming off easy. The water has sealed off the air. If you have two plates of glass with water between them they can be quite difficult to get apart because the glass is solid structure.

As further explanation if you put a drinking glass in water, flip it upside down and pull up the water stays in the glass. Same thing applies to the plastic.
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Re: Some Energy Saving Tips

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Other than geofencing, they can "learn" and auto-adjust to increase efficiency. It's been stated installing a smart thermometer can save up to 25% on your bill and with them now being relatively more affordable (~ $150) seems like it would be worth it if for no other reason than to get rid of the old mercury switch types at least when it comes to heating.

I don't have a heat pump.

I constantly get emails from solar companies looking to install panels on my house to "reduce your dependency on the electric company and save money each month." Where we live it is very sunny nearly year round (229 days with sun) so yeah the panels would probably work great. Our house faces the North, back to the south. Perfect there too. I give my electric bills to them just showing what the usage has been...not the cost. They come back with a $30k system, great! Just one small problem, the monthly payments on the system alone will cost more than what our monthly cost is for electricity. Plus the wife doesn't want anything on our two year old roof (don't even think about install on the ground)...and neither do I. Happy spouse, happy house. :)

Then there's the annual maintenance requirement as well.
If you need hot water during the day you can jack up the temperature it heats to when costs are lowest.
This is a terrible idea IMHO. Hot water heaters, though they can be set to 140, should NEVER be set much higher than 120. @120 scalding occurs in 5 minutes give or take, at 140 it's like 5 seconds.
The most common regulatory standard for the maximum temperature of water delivered by residential water heaters to the tap is 120 degrees Fahrenheit/48 degrees Celsius. At this temperature, the skin of adults requires an average of five minutes of exposure for a full thickness burn to occur. When the temperature of a hot liquid is increased to 140o F/60o C it takes only five seconds or less for a serious burn to occur1. Coffee, tea, hot chocolate and other hot beverages are usually served at 160 to 180o F /71-82o C, resulting in almost instantaneous burns that will require surgery. Since immediate removal of the hot liquid from the skin may lessen severity, splash and spill burns may not be as deep as burns suffered in a bathtub.
As an aside our windows have a reflective coating on them. During the summer very little heat is transferred into the house through them.

There generally isn't a "one size fits all" when it comes to trying to save energy. Most, if not all, electric companies will perform an energy audit for gratis, or a small fee, if asked.
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thecoalman
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Re: Some Energy Saving Tips

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RMcGirr83 wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:21 pm
Other than geofencing, they can "learn" and auto-adjust to increase efficiency. It's been stated installing a smart thermometer can save up to 25% on your bill and with them now being relatively more affordable (~ $150) seems like it would be worth it if for no other reason than to get rid of the old mercury switch types at least when it comes to heating.
There is that famous "up to" so often used in the heating industry. "up to" is achieved when all the stars align. My favorite is when they list itty bitty 18,000 BTU pellet stove that can heat a house "up to" 3000 sq. ft. That's achieved with adequate heat distribution system when it's 65 degrees outside and you want it 70 in the house. Turning the thermostat down when not at home can save you money but once again that is mostly due to the higher efficiency of a longer heating cycle that applies mostly to systems that burn a fuel. It's a savings but it's not a giant savings. A programmable thermostat can achieve the same results if you have set schedule and they start around $20.

I don't have anymore mercury thermostats but while on the topic mercury thermostats have similar feature to the setback on digital thermostat. If you open it up there is usually small gauge marked in amperes. This is the anticipator, what it does is put a small amount of current into the spring to heat it up more quickly than the room air to make it expand more quickly. This is to help prevent the room air temp from overshooting desired temp. You can adjust this one way or the other. If it's not set high enough you will overshoot the desired temp, too low and you'll get short cycles which are inefficient and lead to other costs down the road due to excessive wear and tear.
This is a terrible idea IMHO. Hot water heaters, though they can be set to 140, should NEVER be set much higher than 120. @120 scalding occurs in 5 minutes give or take, at 140 it's like 5 seconds.
As I noted after what you quoted you need to install a mixing valve.The mixing valve will allow you to control the temp by mixing cold water with the hot. That is installed after the water heater so the faucets will only get water temps at the temperature you desire, it can even be set lower than 120. This is also a way to increase your hot water capacity because the volume of water being utilized from the tank is lessened.
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Darth Apple
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Re: Some Energy Saving Tips

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Our water heater in the apartment goes to about 130 or so. Not sure if there is an issue with it or if it has been set this way on purpose, but we're aware it's extra hot and compensate accordingly. It's nice, we pretty much never run out of hot water and it's a tiny heater.
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Re: Some Energy Saving Tips

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I'm be surprised if someone that owns apartment would do that. The big problem is someone used to just turning the hot water on full blast at their own home does it in yours and they get burned. On a coal boiler that has domestic hot water coil the water temp can be 180 and even higher..... A mixing valve is critical.

A hot water tank should not be set below 120 because you get into temperature ranges that are optimal for bacterial growth. 120 kills it.
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Darth Apple
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Re: Some Energy Saving Tips

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We definitely had a few "surprises" at first. The hot water is enough to cause a severe burn. We haven't had many people over because of the pandemic, but we're careful to warn people.

I'm getting ready to move, so by the time the pandemic is done and I have people over, we'll have it set normally. But I will say, never running out of hot water has been nice.
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Re: Some Energy Saving Tips

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thecoalman wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:18 am
If you have two plates of glass with water between them they can be quite difficult to get apart because the glass is solid structure
In engineering terms that’s called “slipstick” from when two slip gauges (sometimes called gauge blocks) get stuck together because of their ultraflat surfaces.
huyhoa wrote:
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If want it stick to the window, it should be double side tape instead of water?
Double sided tape is a terrible idea, imagine having to clean the windows after having tape stuck all over them for a few years :D
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thecoalman
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Re: Some Energy Saving Tips

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Darth Apple wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:58 am
But I will say, never running out of hot water has been nice.
Funny story, with domestic coil on a coal boiler there is no limit on the amount of hot water. It doesn't get colder, it gets hotter. A friend of my Brothers son was staying the night at his house and took a shower, about a half hour later my Brother is knocking on the door asking him if he alright. The kid says he is waiting for the hot water to get cold. :lol:
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Re: Some Energy Saving Tips

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RMcGirr83 wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:34 pm
During the Texas summer you're going to need much more than fans (we've hit temps as high as 110). We also have fans in each and every room as well as dual fans in the living area. All are controlled either manually or remotely (via Kasa dimable switches). ;)
Nice! Fan is the best invention since sliced bread! :mrgreen:

thecoalman wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:18 am
You are creating a vacuum seal. If you had a piece of glass laying flat with a piece of plastic on top and water between them. If you grabbed the plastic in the middle and pulled it's not coming off easy. The water has sealed off the air. If you have two plates of glass with water between them they can be quite difficult to get apart because the glass is solid structure.

As further explanation if you put a drinking glass in water, flip it upside down and pull up the water stays in the glass. Same thing applies to the plastic.
Thanks for the explanation! ;)




And talking about hot water: here in France, since 2005 there is a regulation which says the temperature should be between 50°C (122°F) and 60°C (140°F), see on Wikipedia FR.
I'm not sure the temperature on recent electric water heaters sold in France can be changed: I know I can't on mine but on the previous one I could change it.
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thecoalman
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Re: Some Energy Saving Tips

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To reiterate what I said above the reason for the 120+ is it kills bacteria. Here in the US some are adjustable and others are not. Mine is gas and can be set anywhere between 120ish and 160ish. I probably keep it around 125 or so.
“Results! Why, man, I have gotten a lot of results! I have found several thousand things that won’t work.”

Attributed - Thomas Edison
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