Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

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david63
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

Post by david63 »

Christopher Shilts wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:23 pm it said 4,263 people in the USA have died after receiving the COVID-19 vaccine
Which, to me, sounds better than 600,000+ having died from Covid
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

Post by warmweer »

Christopher Shilts wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:23 pm Did you read the white paper from America's Frontline Doctors?
I did just now and I'm not impressed - the article gives me the impression that it's written with a purpose: to downplay the side-effects, and also to emphasise/blow up the (seemingly) positive effect of hydrochloroquine on (prevention of) viral replication (specifically SARS-CoV-2).
Frankly the language used doesn't sound very scientific and the data referred to is from early 2020, long before the more seriously scrutinised scientific reports on chloroquine which showed little or no benefit.
Tronald Dump did some (perhaps not free) promotion of hydrochloroquine but hardly ever mentioned the monoclonal antibody treatment he received (that has proven positive results).
Frankly he should have done many a favour and stuck to the Spic&Span or CIF treatment, either by ingestion or .. alternative method of insertion into the body (Sarah Cooper, we miss you ;-) )
Christopher Shilts wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:23 pm What sort of restrictions on the unvaccinated people's liberties to you believe to be appropriate, and for how long should they be imposed?
That's a can of worms I'm not going to open but I can imagine compulsory PCR testing and/or quarantine (before/after) being required in order to attend certain mass "congregations".
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Post by AmigoJack »

warmweer wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:27 pm
There's a lot of horror stories coming out about various vaccines giving people heart problems if not outright killing them. Much of this news is being actively suppressed, but it keeps leaking out.
I've come across those pulp magazine stories.
However, clinical studies put those"numbers" in perpective and currently the number of deaths due to complications arising from the common cold are much higher that those related to vaccination.
What if you know beforehand that you will be the one in a million that will die because of the vaccine? I tell you a secret: you would not want that shot, but instead live life without it, as that is guaranteed to be longer. It's a bit like anaesthesia mortality: the risk is very low, but it's there and you don't want to be that unlucky person - you'd opt to not have the operation if you'd just know beforehand.

Given that perspective: can you guys now understand people's fear? There is no guarantee that you don't die from a shot. Comparing this to the chance of getting hit by a car disregards that (in contrast to vaccination) nobody pushes you into crossing the road - you do that on your own will/needs.
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

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AmigoJack wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:58 am What if you know beforehand that you will be the one in a million that will die because of the vaccine?
If we knew beforehand that allowing the Covid virus to escape would have the worldwide devastating effect that it has we would have prevented it, but we didn't.

We can all go on about "if we knew then what we know now" or "if we know what will happen in any given scenario" but we don't, and probably never will, so just have to live life and make judgment calls as we see fit - most will be right, but some will be wrong.
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

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warmweer wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:45 amhydrochloroquine
Do you mean Hydroxychloroquine (Chloroquine) the malaria treatment or something else?
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

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Christopher Shilts wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:23 pm Alright, let's swap experimental out for Emergency Use Authorization This is still a rapidly sped up process.
No I'm sorry but you are wholly wrong. Nothing was rushed or sped up in the production of these vaccines.
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

Post by warmweer »

Mick wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:46 am
warmweer wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:45 amhydrochloroquine
Do you mean Hydroxychloroquine (Chloroquine) the malaria treatment or something else?
yep :( the malaria prevention/treatment, which BTW isn't recommended anymore expect for in certain parts of Africa
I've seen it written incorrectly in so many articles (not scientific though) that i didn't even notice my own error :oops:
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

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I just wondered, it was given to me and several colleagues orally in the 70’s but it didn’t prevent two of them getting malaria. I since found out via our blood donating service that I had had it at some point, presumably the same time as the other guys but without symptoms. I’ve not been allowed to give blood since. Anyway, I don’t see how it would be any good against Covid, if it were everybody and his dog would be after it.
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

Post by KevC »

It dumbs down the symptoms. With Malaria you get a fever, muscle aches, shivers etc. That's all very similar so it helps to deal with that rather than covid itself.
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AmigoJack wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:58 am It's a bit like anaesthesia mortality: the risk is very low, but it's there and you don't want to be that unlucky person - you'd opt to not have the operation if you'd just know beforehand.
True, but if you know you'll be infected by going to a certain place or by performing certain actions, you'll probably not go there or not do what you did.
The probability of dying as a result of covid is still a lot higher than the probability of dying from receiving the vaccine.
AmigoJack wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:58 amGiven that perspective: can you guys now understand people's fear? There is no guarantee that you don't die from a shot. Comparing this to the chance of getting hit by a car disregards that (in contrast to vaccination) nobody pushes you into crossing the road - you do that on your own will/needs.
People's fear is a natural phenomenon and there's nothing wrong with having fear.
I'm willing to bet that most of those unwilling to be vaccinated will change their stance if offered a million $ to overcome that fear. Yet the same percentage will die from the vaccination.

Just a fictitious example: some people won't accept the probability of 0.001% that they'll die because of the vaccination but do accept the risk of 1% that they'll catch covid, infect others and have a probability of 0.01% that they'll die from covid (I emphasise that the numbers are fictitious).
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

Post by warmweer »

Mick wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:52 am I just wondered, it was given to me and several colleagues orally in the 70’s but it didn’t prevent two of them getting malaria.
There are 4 major types of malaria (and a fifth which has a lower occurrence). All result in bloodcells being destroyed, which, if the parasite gets into the brain or important organs (liver), in many cases is deadly or can cause permanent damage. Plasmodium (the parasite) has developed resistance to chloroquine which is why it's not common as a prophylactic nowadays, there are other prophylactics available (each having their side effects but I prefer those to getting malaria).
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

Post by thecoalman »

david63 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:22 am
Christopher Shilts wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:23 pm it said 4,263 people in the USA have died after receiving the COVID-19 vaccine
Which, to me, sounds better than 600,000+ having died from Covid
To reiterate when citing Covid deaths they need to be weighted. The one woman I know who died from it was elderly and could barely walk, she was on oxygen before falling and breaking a hip. She contracted it afterward in the nursing home. Her life was coming to an end no matter what.

The analogy I used previously is someone who has AIDS dies from the complications of AIDS. Pneumonia may have killed them but the real cause is AIDS. Certainly you wouldn't ignore AIDS as the primary reason for their death and you can't ignore the root causes when someone dies from Covid either.

If there is one thing I really despise is how numbers are manipulated by the media and others to fit an agenda. I always thought it would be interesting to add up all the deaths attributed to different circumstances, everyone is probably dead. ;)
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

Post by Deactivated 1950056 »

SpIdErPiGgY wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:18 pm I break all those covid rules. Just don't care.
I care, but I'm done with mask wearing. I am going to follow the CDC guidelines, not the WHO's. I'm vaccinated, and in my area, it's possible to safely end Covid-19 restrictions.
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

Post by KevC »

Just remember the vaccine does not give you total immunity. You can still catch covid, but with luck you'll only have mild symptoms that don't require hospital treatment.
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

Post by Deactivated 1950056 »

KevC wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:55 pm Just remember the vaccine does not give you total immunity. You can still catch covid, but with luck you'll only have mild symptoms that don't require hospital treatment.
I know. I'm just burned out, and there will never be zero risk of catching it.
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