Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

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EA117
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

Post by EA117 »

thecoalman wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:37 am Whether you want to go rock climbing or refuse a vaccine that choice should be yours without penalty from society.
You taking an unnecessary risk by going rock climbing without any training, when you fall and break your neck, it's not that your grandmother dies, your sister's kid breaks a leg, and some random person in the supermarket is now rendered a quadriplegic as a consequence, too. Or else yes, we would have something to say about you "making a personal choice" to go rock climbing.
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

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Exactamundo👍🏼
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

Post by thecoalman »

EA117 wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:23 pm You taking an unnecessary risk by going rock climbing without any training, when you fall and break your neck, it's not that your grandmother dies, your sister's kid breaks a leg, and some random person in the supermarket is now rendered a quadriplegic as a consequence, too. Or else yes, we would have something to say about you "making a personal choice" to go rock climbing.
The vaccines are about 95% effective. if someone catches it that would imply they have likely not been vaccinated themselves. You cannot eliminate the risk of living and protect everyone from everything. In other words highly skilled rock climbers die all the time and if Grandma decides to go rock climbing without proper instruction that's Grandma's responsibility
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

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thecoalman wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:05 ammost of the deaths are people with one foot in the grave.
You couldn't be more disrespectful to those who have lost someone to this disease.

Oh they were half dead anyways, We hear this from people who make excuses for late lockdowns and late border closes.

In this day and age someone can have a heart attack or a stroke at 50/60 and go on to live until they are in their 90's.

I don't give a f*ck if they had underlying conditions or not, the chances are if they didn't catch Covid-19 they would have lived longer than they did.
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

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Mick wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:56 am Anyone who refuses the jab is selfish and I’d certainly vote for the refusal of treatment.
Some people have a fear of needles - not having the vaccine does not make them selfish.

I'm English but I would not trust the English vaccine, we have a government who after Brexit wants to jump on anything pro British, I wouldn't trust them not to fast track things, for example, Oxford vaccine was approved quickly, reports of blood clots came in - we have looked at the evidence blah not a problem, then - under 30's = no Oxford vaccine, at a time when other countries said no Oxford vaccine for over 60's,

(Currently in the UK under 40's won't be getting the Oxford vaccine.)

But it seems like we are saying that if you live in a different country the side effects are different? other countries must have data that told them to not give the Oxford Vaccine to over 60's.

A fit 43 year old radio presenter died of a blood clot after having the Oxford vaccine, if she didn't have it, she would still be here.

Honestly, if you get the choice - don't have the English one!, never mind all this "I'm proud to be having the British one" nonsense,

I've seen few reports that Pfizer enlarges the heart - not many though, when those reports are as regular as Oxford blood clot reports I may change my mind.

I refuse to call people the majority of people that refuse the vaccine selfish, unless they are the ones who spout rubbish about the vaccine being a microchip.
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

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3Di wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:16 pm Does science tell us when it will surely end and everything will return to normal? Is it worth being? I want to be free, whatever the cost, even death.

What about you?
Lets face it, we are not returning to normality anytime soon.

A new variant will eventually come along that the vaccine won't work on.

We don't see any reports of new variants coming out of China and China is a very clever country, most counterfeit products come from China, that's a country who could cover things up and destroy evidence before the WHO get to investigate, which is most likely what they did.

You go out and people are standing a meter apart, it's like saying 'he or she stinks' it's horrible, these are people who used to be friendly to one another and now it's like each other has germs.

Governments can't be trusted to shut borders as soon as a new variant comes up, they wait until it arrives and spreads before doing anything, so that means we have to make our own decisions, if you want any sort of normality back, you have to take the decisions yourself.

You should be happy that you don't live in a country with a scruffy fat prime minister who seems to visit a different factory each day just to have his photo taken with one of their work uniforms on, he tells people to stay at home while he goes out visiting people at their place of work, essential journey? nope.
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

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DTMWC wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:30 pm Oxford vaccine was approved quickly,
Actually the Pfizer vaccine was approved in the UK before the AstraZeneca vaccine.
DTMWC wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:30 pm Some people have a fear of needles
I think you may find that most people have a greater fear of dying.
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

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DTMWC wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:30 pm I'm English but I would not trust the English vaccine, we have a government who after Brexit wants to jump on anything pro British, I wouldn't trust them not to fast track things, for example, Oxford vaccine was approved quickly, reports of blood clots came in - we have looked at the evidence blah not a problem, then - under 30's = no Oxford vaccine, at a time when other countries said no Oxford vaccine for over 60's,
The government had almost nothing to do with any of that. The vaccine was not fast tracked and certainly it wasn't by the government. Approval was by an independent body.
DTMWC wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:30 pm But it seems like we are saying that if you live in a different country the side effects are different?
Yes they can due to regional inherited genetic variations.
DTMWC wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:30 pm A fit 43 year old radio presenter died of a blood clot after having the Oxford vaccine, if she didn't have it, she would still be here.
That has not been proven yet.
DTMWC wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:30 pm Honestly, if you get the choice - don't have the English one!
Blood clot rates are phenomenally low. Just over 348 in 37.1 million doses. All of those people had abnormally low platelet counts. 61 of those died.
There is overwhelming evidence that it's better to have any vaccine than none. You have the choice which one but you also have to weigh up the risks of waiting to get it. It is wholly incorrect to suggest that the Oxford vaccine is unsafe per se.
DTMWC wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:30 pm (Currently in the UK under 40's won't be getting the Oxford vaccine.)
This is incorrect.

No drug is without side effects.
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

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DTMWC wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:28 pm I don't give a f*ck if they had underlying conditions or not, the chances are if they didn't catch Covid-19 they would have lived longer than they did.
True but they could also die from something else. Attributing someone's death entirely to the virus is not realistic when they have underlying health probelms. As an example if you have AIDS you will die from the complications of AIDS. It may say pneumonia on your death certificate but it was AIDS that killed you.
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

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david63 wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:10 pmI think you may find that most people have a greater fear of dying
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

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3Di wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:16 pm ...(...)...
Does science tell us why? Does science tell us when it will surely end and everything will return to normal? Is it worth being?
...(...)...
Hello 3Di, "to Have or to Be" ...? I have always decided .. "to Be". In this regard, there is no choice if I want to survive.
It's a personal attitude, - right. The novel circumstances of this present current habitat is difficult.

Unfortunately, I find no documentation that makes this context understandable in English: Where did the virus came from (Language: German - (CH))
Herr Drosten, woher kam dieses Virus?

Kaum jemand weiss mehr über Corona­viren als der deutsche Virologe Christian Drosten. Was er von der Theorie hält, Sars-CoV-2 komme aus einem Labor, warum das mit der Herden­immunität bei Menschen nicht funktioniert und seine Antwort auf die wichtigste Frage: Ist die Pandemie jetzt wirklich vorbei?
Quote source:
Ein Interview von Marie-José Kolly, Angela Richter und Daniel Ryser, 05.06.2021
https://www.republik.ch/2021/06/05/herr ... obal-de-DE
"To Have or to Be": Fears ask questions. In connection with a life within the meaning of being ("to Be") and not in the sense of this new world of life ("to Have"), which produces these virus variants. Accurate, this context makes a significant difference.
There are way too much factors (farm animals play an essential role in the development of viruses) and so on and so forth. And because too few people listen, we have to say it again and again. :(

Greetings, stay healthy
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

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Talk19Zehn wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:22 am “Mr. Drosten, where did this virus come from?”

“Hardly anyone knows more about corona viruses than the German virologist Christian Drosten. What he thinks of the theory that Sars-CoV-2 comes from a laboratory, why the herd immunity does not work in humans and his answer to the most important question: Is the pandemic really over now?”
It is a possibility the virus was manufactured and I believe the WHO and or their partners are investigating. Remember China had a finger in the SARS and MERS virus’s as well which fortunately didn’t cause the same level of devastation that COVID19 has largely because they aren’t as easily transmitted. Coincidence?

Please, from what you understand of the text, can you explain what he says about the herd immunity? I can’t see it not working, we are after all, all animals.

And no the pandemic isn’t over, not by a long chalk.
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

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Hello Mick,
Mick wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:34 am ...(...)...
And no the pandemic isn’t over, not by a long chalk.
Yes, that's how I see it too.
Mick wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:34 am ...(...)...
It is a possibility the virus was manufactured and I believe the WHO and or their partners are investigating. Remember China had a finger in the SARS and MERS virus’s as well which fortunately didn’t cause the same level of devastation that COVID19 has largely because they aren’t as easily transmitted. Coincidence?
Statements on this can also be read also in this interview.

Speculation doesn't help us.

On the subject of translation it is only paraphrased / analogous in excerpts: *)
  • >>In principle it says that people do not live in herds. And that's why there can be no herd immunity.<<
  • >>At best, the virus SARS-2 (comparisons pandemic) becomes a flu-like disease.<<
  • >>That was a misunderstanding from the start, if one has understood that herd immunity means: 70 percent are immune - no matter now, whether vaccination or infection - and the remaining 30 percent will then have no contact with the virus. That's just not the case with this virus. All who do not vaccinate will infect with SARS-2.
    The term herd immunity comes from veterinary medicine, where in former years, in fact, one has actually made such considerations, for example in the bovine pest virus, the cattle virus of the cattle. Highly transferable, but to hold for life through vaccination. Since then you can really do such calculations: we have a livestock stock that has been completed in itself - how many of the animals we have to vaccinate now so that the virus can not circulate? There is this term.<<
*)Unfortunately, I have not found tools for translation in the English language, which are actually error-free in the wordfinding.
In this respect, I appeal to own tools for the correct translation in order not to distort the interview.


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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

Post by HaioPaio »

I understood Mr. Drosten's statement regarding herd immunity (only a side topic in this interview) as follows:
An animal, living in a herd, usually does'nt travel world wide and lives mostly in a limited area.
Humans are very different in those aspects. That makes the difference in regards to herd immunity.
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Re: Covid: the end of the known world? 🔚

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Aren’t we one big herd? Instead of migrating twice yearly we humans do it constantly. I don’t see it makes much difference whether it’s a field, a county, country or the world. The genome of modern humans shares common ancestry with the genomes of all other animals on the planet hence we’re all linked one way or the other.
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