Women in combat.

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Rabidus_Lupus
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Post by Rabidus_Lupus » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:03 pm

NewGuy wrote: Look, i feel that the conversation is breaking of into little tangents. I simply said regarding women in combat "If they want in - they want in" - now is moved to men not being able to be non combatants, which im sure is incorrect. Conciencious objectator is one title given to non combatants that i am aware of. Anyhow, all that aside, can we stay on topic? I think we all have really said all there is to say and now its drifting to men vs women rights. I myself believe the world should be competency based, but nonetheless, the military has their rules. If you really feel the need, perhaps lobby your local gov member.

Conciencious objectors are kicked out.
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Post by Rabidus_Lupus » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:04 pm

MennoniteHobbit wrote:
Rabidus_Lupus wrote:Because not everyone in the military wants to go to combat. So far I've been in the military for 5 years. I've been stationed in three different countries. I've known hundreds of soldiers. I've known two that volunteered to go to Iraq/Afghanistan. Two out of a few hundred, is not enough to carry out a single war.


They volunteered to join the Army. They know fully well that they may have to go into combat, even if that wasn't why they joined. Volunteering to join the Army, and then saying that you don't want to fight because you didn't volunteer for it [the fighting/combat part], is wrong.


If you're not going to think about what was said, please don't comment.
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Post by NewGuy » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:07 pm

Unfortunatly, from my understanding, being in the military involved a great deal of "do what we say to do" and not, "do what suits you". I am not sure what sort of a soloution you could get once already enlisted in the military.

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Post by MHobbit » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:10 pm

Rabidus_Lupus wrote: If you're not going to think about what was said, please don't comment.


And I did think about what you said.

Basically, from your own quote, you're saying that people have to volunteer to fight in wars for them to take place. Thus, I replied the way I did previously.

I believe that both males and females should not get the option to not fight in war.
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Post by NewGuy » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:11 pm

MennoniteHobbit wrote: "Volunteering to join the Army, and then saying that you don't want to fight because you didn't volunteer for it [the fighting/combat part], is wrong"
Not if you didn't sign up to be GI or some fighting role, what if when you signed on you just were maintaining radio equiptment or were motorpool.... etc etc, I am sure not everyone in the military gets to see firsthand combat. What about all the paper pushers, cooks??

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Post by Rabidus_Lupus » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:11 pm

NewGuy wrote: Unfortunatly, from my understanding, being in the military involved a great deal of "do what we say to do" and not, "do what suits you".
You're abolutely right. I gave two solutions, one was what could happen if women didn't have a choice. That's one reason women should not go to combat in the first place, just my opinion.
I am not sure what sort of a soloution you could get once already enlisted in the military.

I don't know what you are referring to on this.
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Post by NewGuy » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:19 pm

Rabidus_Lupus wrote:
NewGuy wrote:I am not sure what sort of a soloution you could get once already enlisted in the military.

I don't know what you are referring to on this.
I am simply saying if you are already in the military and don't want to be involved in a war - you are screwed.

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Post by Rabidus_Lupus » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:27 pm

NewGuy wrote:
Rabidus_Lupus wrote:
NewGuy wrote:I am not sure what sort of a soloution you could get once already enlisted in the military.

I don't know what you are referring to on this.
I am simply saying if you are already in the military and don't want to be involved in a war - you are screwed.

Men join knowing theres a chance they can go to war. They have no right to object if that chance becomes reality. Now, if women are forced, which right now they don't even have the right to go to war, they can get out if they can prove their objection. Which is probably what a lot of women will do if they are forced into combat. Which reduces our numbers. Remember, all the women joining right now join knowing combat is not something they will be forced into.
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Post by NewGuy » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:34 pm

Rabidus_Lupus wrote:
NewGuy wrote:
Rabidus_Lupus wrote:
NewGuy wrote:I am not sure what sort of a soloution you could get once already enlisted in the military.

I don't know what you are referring to on this.
I am simply saying if you are already in the military and don't want to be involved in a war - you are screwed.

Men join knowing theres a chance they can go to war. They have no right to object if that chance becomes reality. Now, if women are forced, which right now they don't even have the right to go to war, they can get out if they can prove their objection. Which is probably what a lot of women will do if they are forced into combat. Which reduces our numbers. Remember, all the women joining right now join knowing combat is not something they will be forced into.
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Post by MHobbit » Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:00 pm

Men join knowing theres a chance they can go to war. They have no right to object if that chance becomes reality.


True. Which is what I stated.
Not if you didn't sign up to be GI or some fighting role, what if when you signed on you just were maintaining radio equiptment or were motorpool.... etc etc, I am sure not everyone in the military gets to see firsthand combat. What about all the paper pushers, cooks??


Even if you signed up to be a communications specialist, you'll still have to go into combat; not necessarily fighting, but participating in the war.
Now, if women are forced, which right now they don't even have the right to go to war, they can get out if they can prove their objection. Which is probably what a lot of women will do if they are forced into combat. Which reduces our numbers. Remember, all the women joining right now join knowing combat is not something they will be forced into.


Women volunteer and join the Army. They're soldiers, in the same boat the men are. If they don't want to risk fighting, and not being able to take care of their families in the future, they shouldn't join.
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Post by Rabidus_Lupus » Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:48 pm

Women volunteer and join the Army. They're soldiers, in the same boat the men are. If they don't want to risk fighting, and not being able to take care of their families in the future, they shouldn't join.

Women are not in the same boat. They are not allowed in combat. They join right now knowing this. They are not put into a position where they will definitely meet the enemy in combat.
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Post by Pit » Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:58 pm

Rabidus_Lupus wrote:
Women volunteer and join the Army. They're soldiers, in the same boat the men are. If they don't want to risk fighting, and not being able to take care of their families in the future, they shouldn't join.

Women are not in the same boat. They are not allowed in combat. They join right now knowing this. They are not put into a position where they will definitely meet the enemy in combat.

How's this: Only apply it to new recruits, and allow existing women in the army to opt in or out. For both sexes, only force people to go into combat who are judged to be capable of performing the task.
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Post by Rabidus_Lupus » Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:29 pm

Nothing anyone's saying is giving me a reason to allow them into combat. A female I asked said they shouldn't. Among other reasons, one of hers was "What happens when it's that time of the month and they're in combat and haven't got what they need on hand because they weren't expecting to be out there that long." I was also told that it lasts longer for some females when they're under heavy stress.
Also, what about the hygene thing I mentioned earlier, women aren't in the field (during exercises) as long as guys because of this.
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Post by Darth Wong » Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:49 am

Rabidus_Lupus wrote:
Women volunteer and join the Army. They're soldiers, in the same boat the men are. If they don't want to risk fighting, and not being able to take care of their families in the future, they shouldn't join.

Women are not in the same boat. They are not allowed in combat. They join right now knowing this. They are not put into a position where they will definitely meet the enemy in combat.

No one in the Army is "put into a position where they will definitely meet the enemy in combat". And while the current policy on females is not to send them into combat, the females sign the same contract that the males do. They know that the government does have the right to send them into harm's way if it so desires. The fact that it currently has a policy of not exercising this right does not change that.

And don't give me talk about what they assumed going in. A lot of recruits assumed going in that they would not face combat. Belly-aching several months after getting in is a well-known problem, once new recruits realize what they've gotten themselves into.
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Post by Rabidus_Lupus » Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:43 am

Darth Wong wrote: No one in the Army is "put into a position where they will definitely meet the enemy in combat".
You have got to be kidding me. You think the military sent Sadam an e-mail requesting he give up power and he complied? I can't believe you actually wrote that. That was just retarded.
And while the current policy on females is not to send them into combat, the females sign the same contract that the males do. They know that the government does have the right to send them into harm's way if it so desires. The fact that it currently has a policy of not exercising this right does not change that.
I've known a lot of females in the military. Not too many of them were thinking "Oh we can be sent into combat, they just don't practice that policy" There's a reason females join the military, travel, guys and college money. That will cover 99% of the females I've known. Chances are the overall percentage isn't much different.
And don't give me talk about what they assumed going in. A lot of recruits assumed going in that they would not face combat. Belly-aching several months after getting in is a well-known problem, once new recruits realize what they've gotten themselves into.
Actually, most assume the chances of going to combat are slim. When I ask, nobody says I know I'll never see combat. They say they probably won't see combat. I've never heard the words "I won't be going to Iraq/Afghanistan" ,or anything with that effect, uttered from a physically able male. I've heard it from a female though.
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