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Magnotta
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Post by Magnotta »

Rabidus_Lupus wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Rabidus_Lupus wrote:I think kids have a lot less respect for adults these days. I don't see any books from pyschiatrists these days saying how much better behaved the kids today are.

I think adults have a lot less respect for kids these days. I don't see any books from psychiatrists these days saying how much better behaved the adults today are.

So you see a lot of books about how much worse they are? Cuz I see a lot about how bad kids are getting.


Can we get some amazon links to go with that? I'm sure we'd all like to see all these books and give 'em a read.

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Post by TC »

Darth Wong wrote:
Rabidus_Lupus wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Rabidus_Lupus wrote:I think kids have a lot less respect for adults these days. I don't see any books from pyschiatrists these days saying how much better behaved the kids today are.

I think adults have a lot less respect for kids these days. I don't see any books from psychiatrists these days saying how much better behaved the adults today are.

So you see a lot of books about how much worse they are? Cuz I see a lot about how bad kids are getting.

Yeah, they were so much better back in the days of the Hitler Youth, right?

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Post by rick` »

Either crime has gone up.
Or the media are just reporting it more.

Either way there is still something horribly wrong when you've got gangs of pre-teen (talking ages as young as 7) going around attacking people and property just for the hell of it. And the shit thing is, since they're apparently "too young" to be charged the little buggers keep going with it.


And I can say withou a doubt that things weren't this bad a few years ago.
Even in the adult population. And one of them are going to stop since the cops can't do anything to stop them.




note: this is reference to Brisbane, Australia and other cities down the east cost.

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Post by Darth Wong »

rick` wrote: Either crime has gone up.
Or the media are just reporting it more.

Exactly. Why assume option #1 when option #2 exists?
Either way there is still something horribly wrong when you've got gangs of pre-teen (talking ages as young as 7) going around attacking people and property just for the hell of it. And the *beep* thing is, since they're apparently "too young" to be charged the little buggers keep going with it.

Do you know how old Al Capone was when he first started pimping prostitutes? Youth gangs are not a new phenomenon, despite what you may believe.
And I can say withou a doubt that things weren't this bad a few years ago.
Even in the adult population. And one of them are going to stop since the cops can't do anything to stop them.

Do you have statistical evidence to back up your claims, or are you basing it on your subjective impressions of how the media reports things?

We human beings have this little problem called "rose-coloured glasses"; we tend to forget how bad the past was. When people talk about how youth and adult crime is getting worse, do they truly have an accurate recollection of what it used to be like? When do you think people like John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, and Charles Manson operated? Last year? What about Al Capone's youth gangs? There has always been unspeakable brutality among human beings and delinquency among youths; the assertion that it's gotten much worse lately would be much more credible if it came with actual evidence attached.
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Post by Argumental »

How many kids are capable of raising themselves? How many children are latch-key kids with either a single working parent, or in a family where both parents work? To hell with statistics, look down your own street. This is the generation of parentless children.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Argumental wrote: How many kids are capable of raising themselves? How many children are latch-key kids with either a single working parent, or in a family where both parents work? To hell with statistics, look down your own street. This is the generation of parentless children.

"To hell with statistics" is an interesting way of saying "I have no objective evidence".
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Post by Argumental »

Darth Wong wrote: "To hell with statistics" is an interesting way of saying "I have no objective evidence".

Absolutely correct. Mine is subjective evidence. It is a sample of the population with a heavy (read absolute) bias on where I've lived and who I've lived next to. For all I know, my neighborhood is the only one where parents are preoccupied with getting that second SUV and have no interest in teaching their kids, but I doubt it. Common sense tells me that letting kids hash things out for themselves may not be doing them the best service. I tend to be additionally biased having been one of those kids myself.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Argumental wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:"To hell with statistics" is an interesting way of saying "I have no objective evidence".

Absolutely correct. Mine is subjective evidence.

And therefore it is totally inadequate to use as a basis for generalizations.
It is a sample of the population with a heavy (read absolute) bias on where I've lived and who I've lived next to. For all I know, my neighborhood is the only one where parents are preoccupied with getting that second SUV and have no interest in teaching their kids, but I doubt it. Common sense tells me that letting kids hash things out for themselves may not be doing them the best service. I tend to be additionally biased having been one of those kids myself.

Admitting to your own personal biases is no way to strengthen your argument.
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Post by Argumental »

Well shoot, I don't even know where to look for statistics on whether parents are better off disciplining their kids or leaving them home to figure things out for themselves. Guess I'll never know which way's better.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Argumental wrote: Well shoot, I don't even know where to look for statistics on whether parents are better off disciplining their kids or leaving them home to figure things out for themselves. Guess I'll never know which way's better.

Since it's illegal to leave a pre-pubescent child at home by himself without supervision, I can only assume that either you have an incredible number of lawbreakers in your community or you are just making up claims out of thin air.
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Post by Argumental »

Actually, I hadn't heard of that law. I was a latch-key kid at 7. Course that was a while back, things change. Nonetheless, fifteen year olds need direction, too.
This Phoenix, AZ website, http://www.ci.phoenix.az.us/FIRE/keykids.html, seems to think there are quite a few kids left at home, but unfortunately they aren't kind enough to reference their source. Didn't find any univerisity studies with numbers for you, but if you do a google for "latchkey kids", you'll probably find enough to convince you that it's not just my neighborhood.
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Post by Seven of Nine »

In the UK, there is no law on when a child can be left home alone. I coul;d leave my 17 month old toddler at home, and although I could be charged with neglect, there isn't a specific law that I've broken.

Children get away with more in some communities than they used to. I don't know whether they're bad, just that their behavour is tolerated more now. I have heard 5 and 6 year olds swearing at adults. No way would I do that, even now I don't swear and I'm 18.

I'm worried about my daughter doing that, but hopefully with careful upbringing by her father and I she'll grow up to be a decent kid. No guarantees, but it's what I'm aiming for.

I've been attacked by 8 and 9 year olds, so in some communities things are getting worse. I think in others things might be getting better, so it balances out.

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Post by Rabidus_Lupus »

If there is only one God, and he is the top of the chain of command in life, where did he come from?

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Post by Darth Wong »

Rabidus_Lupus wrote: Here's some statistics.
http://arts.uwaterloo.ca/~pjc/courses/s ... ture_8.pdf

That is for Canada, where there is a specific driving force at work: the Young Offenders Act, which I strongly disagree with and which guarantees perpetual anonymity for youth criminals who are convicted of crimes, not to mention strict limits on sentencing. It cannot be used to generalize about all young people.

That is for the specific period from 1987 to 1996. Fluctuations in trends always look larger and more significant when you zero in on a short timeframe like that. I'm talking about the larger 30 to 40 year timeframe.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Seven of Nine wrote: In the UK, there is no law on when a child can be left home alone. I coul;d leave my 17 month old toddler at home, and although I could be charged with neglect, there isn't a specific law that I've broken.

It is unclear to me how it is possible to be charged for something even if you've broken no law. That doesn't make any sense to me.
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