Breaking News: London Explosion!!

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the rat
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Post by the rat » Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:59 pm

SHS` wrote: War is immoral whichever way you sugar coat it. Turn the other cheek and all that. At least the good news is that the death toll isn't higher than what has been reported so far.


You are so right. If you poke a dog with a stick for long enough it will bite you and today the UK got bitten. It's not time for bigger sticks and poking machines, it's time to stop poking altogether.

Punish those responsible yes, of course... but stop poking innocent people and this won't happen.

[Mod edit: Fixed quote b0rkage - SHS`]

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Post by psoTFX » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:43 pm

This is a terrible day for London ... but the reaction of my "fellow Londoners", the emergency services, Transport for London, etc. has been remarkable. The buses are set to return to Central London soon, the tube will at least partially be in service tomorrow. There's very little panic on the streets ... this I think is the biggest possible snub to the idiots that carry out these attacks.

My own message to these idiots is don't bother attacking London if you're intention is to scare or otherwise cause us to change political or cultural direction. This city has stood for 2000 years, it's people have survived attacks throughout that existence from people far more determined to do away with us than you. And London and its population will be here long after your "cause" and supporters have vanished into history.

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Post by Darth Wong » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:45 pm

SHS` wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:It's Al-Quaeda. This is the problem with terrorists; they don't need an infrastructure, so you can't just find this infrastructure and blow it up. It would be nice if Al-Quaeda were a country and you could declare war on them, bomb them in retaliation, and force a surrender, but it doesn't work that way.

Do explain how state-terrorism from one state aggressing against another is "better"?

Because there is a foreseeable method of ending it.
I guess "collateral damage" (dead civilians, whom unfortunately happened to have been born in the wrong place in the wrong time, to you and me) is a-ok when we could bomb Al-Quaeda-istan, should such a place exist?

I never said it was A-OK. I only said it would be better (as in "lesser of two evils") than fighting a shadowy organization that runs around blowing people up on their way to work.
War is immoral whichever way you sugar coat it. Turn the other cheek and all that. At least the good news is that the death toll isn't higher than what has been reported so far.

Of course war is immoral. But at least conventional war between nation-states holds the possibility of a negotiated ending at some point. This kind of war doesn't.
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Post by amjohnno » Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:11 pm

psoTFX wrote: My own message to these idiots is don't bother attacking London if you're intention is to scare or otherwise cause us to change political or cultural direction. This city has stood for 2000 years, it's people have survived attacks throughout that existence from people far more determined to do away with us than you. And London and its population will be here long after your "cause" and supporters have vanished into history.


I whole-heartedly agree.

It now turns out it's a previously unknown group, although I haven't heard anything else about it yet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4660391.stm
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Post by Nephrus » Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:54 pm

Well said Paul. Well said.
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Post by SHS` » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:03 pm

psoTFX wrote: My own message to these idiots is don't bother attacking London if you're intention is to scare or otherwise cause us to change political or cultural direction. This city has stood for 2000 years, it's people have survived attacks throughout that existence from people far more determined to do away with us than you. And London and its population will be here long after your "cause" and supporters have vanished into history.


London does have this ability to rise from the ashes since Roman times and agree the best action when such events as this is to just carry on. "Terrorism" that doesn't cause terror is ultimately an own goal.
Darth Wong wrote:
SHS` wrote:Do explain how state-terrorism from one state aggressing against another is "better"?

Because there is a foreseeable method of ending it.

One doesn't get very far with "War in Terror" when you refuse to negotiate with terrorists. I have no idea how history will judge this one, though do bare in mind a certain Margaret Thatcher branded a certain Nelson Mandela on (mis)advice that he was a terrorist not worth negotiating with.
Darth Wong wrote: I never said it was A-OK. I only said it would be better (as in "lesser of two evils") than fighting a shadowy organization that runs around blowing people up on their way to work.

As opposed to non-shadowy governments under star-and-strips, union flag or whatever... Right. Wink
Darth Wong wrote: Of course war is immoral. But at least conventional war between nation-states holds the possibility of a negotiated ending at some point. This kind of war doesn't.

As per previous answer, if you refuse to negotiate and fail to see all wars ultimately end as a stalemate, the seperation that "conventional warfare" and "asymmetric warfare" is a complete misnomer.
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Post by The Techboy » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:15 pm

To be fair, they likely did it because of the G8 summit.

Now, think about it, this was the most idiotic mistake ever made. The eight richest countries in the world all there to watch, and they just go and bomb?

It's also a bir of an own goal..they've now just used a bomb and collected their ticket for war, honestly.

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Post by Techie-Micheal » Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:08 pm

SHS` wrote:
psoTFX wrote: My own message to these idiots is don't bother attacking London if you're intention is to scare or otherwise cause us to change political or cultural direction. This city has stood for 2000 years, it's people have survived attacks throughout that existence from people far more determined to do away with us than you. And London and its population will be here long after your "cause" and supporters have vanished into history.


London does have this ability to rise from the ashes since Roman times and agree the best action when such events as this is to just carry on. "Terrorism" that doesn't cause terror is ultimately an own goal.
Darth Wong wrote:
SHS` wrote: Do explain how state-terrorism from one state aggressing against another is "better"?

Because there is a foreseeable method of ending it.


One doesn't get very far with "War in Terror" when you refuse to negotiate with terrorists. I have no idea how history will judge this one, though do bare in mind a certain Margaret Thatcher branded a certain Nelson Mandela on (mis)advice that he was a terrorist not worth negotiating with.
You never negotiate with terrorists. Back when "old-fashioned" pirates of the sea were still the thing to do, countries negotiated with the pirates, and in return further killing was done, more shipments were stolen, and any attempts to negotiate were thwarted. This has since been proven time and time again in recent history. Anyway, I just wanted to comment on that.

If anybody has lost or has a family member or friend injured in these bombings, my sincerest condolences.
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Post by Lagerman » Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:20 pm

It is impossible to negotiate with these guys. They hate America's way of life, so much in fact they beleive they will get rewarded in Heaven for blowing themselves up killing innocent people. They want no money, just the vicious slaughter of innocent human beings. We have no choice, but to continue to fight these guys.
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Post by Techie-Micheal » Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:24 pm

Lagerman wrote: It is impossible to negotiate with these guys. They hate America's way of life, so much in fact they beleive they will get rewarded in Heaven for blowing themselves up killing innocent people. They want no money, just the vicious slaughter of innocent human beings. We have no choice, but to continue to fight these guys.
Just FYI, they bombed London, not us. ;)
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Post by Darth Wong » Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:30 pm

Lagerman wrote: It is impossible to negotiate with these guys. They hate America's way of life, so much in fact they beleive they will get rewarded in Heaven for blowing themselves up killing innocent people. They want no money, just the vicious slaughter of innocent human beings. We have no choice, but to continue to fight these guys.

Actually, I know this is not a popular thing to say but they have made it clear what they want, and that's the withdrawal of western military forces from the Middle East. There's no need to pretend that they have not offered conditions for cessation of hostilities, although most people I know feel that they would only demand more if they got what they wanted.
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Post by Lagerman » Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:33 pm

Techie-Micheal wrote: Just FYI, they bombed London, not us. ;)


....Ya....

I was commenting on negotiating with terrorists. Thanks for the update though Drudge 8O
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Post by sonyboy » Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:35 pm

It was good news yesterday, now this happened. I feel sorry for those who suffering this tragedy, osama group is behind this and i feel angry at them. I don't think they're humans, before they beheaded people and now they bomb UK. (Not include 911 and other incidents done by them) Anyways, may God bless those their families who suffering what happened today in UK.

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Post by ScionCrow » Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:36 pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Lagerman wrote:It is impossible to negotiate with these guys. They hate America's way of life, so much in fact they beleive they will get rewarded in Heaven for blowing themselves up killing innocent people. They want no money, just the vicious slaughter of innocent human beings. We have no choice, but to continue to fight these guys.

Actually, I know this is not a popular thing to say but they have made it clear what they want, and that's the withdrawal of western military forces from the Middle East. There's no need to pretend that they have not offered conditions for cessation of hostilities, although most people I know feel that they would only demand more if they got what they wanted.


I have to comment on this.. This is very true. They have made threats to a few European countries such as Denmark, Holland, and even Italy.. that they get their troops of of Iraq and Afghan... But yeah, they want our troops out of their and I heard about Baghdad (spelling?) actually applauding London's bombing run... ridiculous don't ya think?
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Post by Lagerman » Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:40 pm

Darth Wong wrote: Actually, I know this is not a popular thing to say but they have made it clear what they want, and that's the withdrawal of western military forces from the Middle East. There's no need to pretend that they have not offered conditions for cessation of hostilities, although most people I know feel that they would only demand more if they got what they wanted.


They have proven that this isnt just what they want in the past by the many earlier attacks. They hate our culture and way of life. There scum bags and terrorists. Unfortunatly the only way to deal with people who are willing to blow themselves up killing innocent people, are to kill them before they get the chance.
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