Newly Discovered 10th Planet

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Kazer0
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Post by Kazer0 » Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:12 am

RunningWolf wrote:
Kazer0 wrote:
RunningWolf wrote:This confusion about Sol is beginning to intrigue me. I thought as I have in the past on a star chart seen the label Sol, don't ask were or when I have forgotten by now but I am sure it was not a game. Not only that Sol is a translation of sun, but that there are a) many suns b) many solar systems.

Taking in the fact that we at one point had limited knowledge of the solar system I got the impression that calling our solar system, "Solar System or Sun" would not be how it is, instead "Sol" which incidentally means Sun was chosen not just as the name of the sun but as the solar system as well as a whole.

Any thoughts or corrections?

(Really who calls our Solar System, Solar Sytem - now that I think about it I think I saw the term Sol in an atlas somewhere that had a page on the solar system :? )


Now this may seem confusing: Other Suns are called 'Suns' because they are named after our 'Sun' because they are the same type of stellar object. Same with 'Solar System'.
Would you like to know something even more confusing?

If we call everything Sun, Solar System, or Sol
Please, I though we just finished discussing that Sol was not a real name for sun. Anyways...
without declaring it a unique name where does one go?

Lets take an example, lets just say that every town and city in my country was called City.
Question: "Hey buddy I need to know how to go to get to City."
Reply after looking at a map, "Which one?"
See the problem, if we call everything by what they are then when there are multiple occurrences of that object we have no clue about differences. The solution is to make it individual.

We don't call our home system solar system. >.<
We may call each sun a sun, but not Sun! (note the capitalisation.) Back when these things were first discovered it isn't like they knew of the many solar systems or suns anyway. There would have been at one point in history that a star was simply considered a star and a sun is something entirely different. Things got interesting when we learned that the sun is a star and so forth with the discoveries.


See, your example means nothing. We, no matter how much sci-fi tells us, are not space travellers. We only deal with one sun, one solar system. When someone says the sun, we all know we mean the Sun in the sky. No one besides astronomers deal with more Suns than our own. If we were to take your example, and there were only 1 city on the entire planet, someone asking how to get to the city would be directed, because there was only one city we are concerned with.
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Post by RunningWolf » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:06 am

Kazer0 wrote: See, your example means nothing. We, no matter how much sci-fi tells us, are not space travellers. We only deal with one sun, one solar system. When someone says the sun, we all know we mean the Sun in the sky. No one besides astronomers deal with more Suns than our own. If we were to take your example, and there were only 1 city on the entire planet, someone asking how to get to the city would be directed, because there was only one city we are concerned with.
That is irrelevant, just because one does not chose to go somewhere - or that we cannot currently reach such a point, does not affect its existence.
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Post by Flaming_cows » Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:42 pm

RunningWolf wrote: We don't call our home system solar system.

We call it the Solar System, just like we call the Sun, the Sun, even if we call other stars suns sometimes because they are in similar positions..

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Suns

Post by Riamus » Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:00 pm

warmweer wrote:
Kazer0 wrote:Now this may seem confusing: Other Suns are called 'Suns' because they are named after our 'Sun' because they are the same type of stellar object. Same with 'Solar System'.

I was always under the impression that "a sun" was used for stars with a planetary system (and also that solar system was strictly limited to our planetary system).
I googled a bit but came up with the universe (a vast emptiness ;) ).


A solar system is a system where there is a sun and planets. It's not limited to just ours. I really don't know why all stars aren't considered suns just because they don't have planets... they are the same thing with or without planets. Not that it really matters. Sun/Star... "A rose by any other name..." :)
Flaming_cows wrote:
RunningWolf wrote:We don't call our home system solar system.


We call it the Solar System, just like we call the Sun, the Sun, even if we call other stars suns sometimes because they are in similar positions..


Personally, I say "our solar system" and don't give it any more weight (read capital letters) than any other. Again, not that it matters.

And, for the comment about calling all other suns "sun" ... that's incorrect regardless. All suns/stars we've discovered have names. Usually not very good names, imo... but then, why do we need to give real names rather than designations to them? Anyhow, since all others have names/designations, then no one will ever be confused about which one is meant. The same for solar/star systems.

We seem to be way off topic anyhow. :)
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Post by Flaming_cows » Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:06 pm

Sun can be used an an adjective meaning a star with planets orbiting it. So when we call a star a sun, it's like calling a firetruck red. It is not the embodiment of red (i.e. The Red), 'red' is not its only designation and attribute, but we can can call it red nonetheless. But the Sun specifically refers to the star we orbit.

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Post by Kazer0 » Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:49 pm

RunningWolf wrote:
Kazer0 wrote:See, your example means nothing. We, no matter how much sci-fi tells us, are not space travellers. We only deal with one sun, one solar system. When someone says the sun, we all know we mean the Sun in the sky. No one besides astronomers deal with more Suns than our own. If we were to take your example, and there were only 1 city on the entire planet, someone asking how to get to the city would be directed, because there was only one city we are concerned with.
That is irrelevant, just because one does not chose to go somewhere - or that we cannot currently reach such a point, does not affect its existence.


It is relivent. The point was we are only concerned with one sun. You ask me to point to the sun, im not going to ask which one. Read my example again.
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Post by Pit » Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:24 pm

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Post by RunningWolf » Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:06 am

Kazer0 wrote:
RunningWolf wrote:
Kazer0 wrote:See, your example means nothing. We, no matter how much sci-fi tells us, are not space travellers. We only deal with one sun, one solar system. When someone says the sun, we all know we mean the Sun in the sky. No one besides astronomers deal with more Suns than our own. If we were to take your example, and there were only 1 city on the entire planet, someone asking how to get to the city would be directed, because there was only one city we are concerned with.
That is irrelevant, just because one does not chose to go somewhere - or that we cannot currently reach such a point, does not affect its existence.


It is relevant. The point was we are only concerned with one sun. You ask me to point to the sun, im not going to ask which one. Read my example again.
I did read it and I still stand by my statement. There are differences between names as a unique identifier and the name describing a type of an object. I have not noticed anything you have stated yet that changes a concept fact. You also seem to be tied down by what you yourself can and can not do - which is not a good idea when it comes to such discussions. Astronomers are people too and future persons will be astronomers. Everything I have said so far has not been proven otherwise, as astronomers are people too. You, they and I are not the world and the world is not us. Our situation is not the fact of what exists, what exists simply exists and our individual situation does not change that. Just because you have no relevance to a place does not mean that a place does not have a name. I have never been to America, America has no relevance to me. Yet I understand that America is called America and not continent. I also understand that if someone asks me where it is I can give relative reference to where America is. America is a specific name that refers to a specific continent.

The fact that our Sun is called Sun and our 'Solar System' is called is either called that or "Sol" (which I recall reading somewhere) is down to history and the past limited knowledge. Now we know better and we don't call every sun "Sun". It doesn't matter if the names have any use to you, they exist, simple.
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Post by Riamus » Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:19 pm

Just a note... the solar system isn't called Sol. Officially, Sol is a Martian solar day.

I do stand by my statement that people can use Sol for the sun and Sol System for the solar system if they want. People will know what they are referring to. It may just be a nickname or slang or a foreign language version of the name, but that doesn't mean it can't still be used. It's not official, but that doesn't mean you can't use it if you choose to because people will understand what is meant.
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Post by Kazer0 » Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:08 pm

RunningWolf wrote:
Kazer0 wrote:
RunningWolf wrote:
Kazer0 wrote:See, your example means nothing. We, no matter how much sci-fi tells us, are not space travellers. We only deal with one sun, one solar system. When someone says the sun, we all know we mean the Sun in the sky. No one besides astronomers deal with more Suns than our own. If we were to take your example, and there were only 1 city on the entire planet, someone asking how to get to the city would be directed, because there was only one city we are concerned with.
That is irrelevant, just because one does not chose to go somewhere - or that we cannot currently reach such a point, does not affect its existence.


It is relevant. The point was we are only concerned with one sun. You ask me to point to the sun, im not going to ask which one. Read my example again.
I did read it and I still stand by my statement. There are differences between names as a unique identifier and the name describing a type of an object. I have not noticed anything you have stated yet that changes a concept fact. You also seem to be tied down by what you yourself can and can not do - which is not a good idea when it comes to such discussions. Astronomers are people too and future persons will be astronomers. Everything I have said so far has not been proven otherwise, as astronomers are people too. You, they and I are not the world and the world is not us. Our situation is not the fact of what exists, what exists simply exists and our individual situation does not change that. Just because you have no relevance to a place does not mean that a place does not have a name. I have never been to America, America has no relevance to me. Yet I understand that America is called America and not continent. I also understand that if someone asks me where it is I can give relative reference to where America is. America is a specific name that refers to a specific continent.

The fact that our Sun is called Sun and our 'Solar System' is called is either called that or "Sol" (which I recall reading somewhere) is down to history and the past limited knowledge. Now we know better and we don't call every sun "Sun". It doesn't matter if the names have any use to you, they exist, simple.


You, sir, are completely missing the point, and are making an argument that does not matter. The Sun is called the Sun. The Solar System is called the Solar System, weither or not you think it should be.
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Post by Darth Wong » Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:50 pm

Flaming_cows wrote:
RunningWolf wrote:We don't call our home system solar system.

We call it the Solar System, just like we call the Sun, the Sun, even if we call other stars suns sometimes because they are in similar positions..

Similarly, we often use the phrase "the planet" to refer to Earth, even though we recognize that other planets exist.
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Post by Kanuck » Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:34 pm

So, how about that tenth planet, huh?

Pretty exciting stuff!

Yep, real exciting.

A lot more exciting than semantics, that's for sure.
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