Al-Qaeda video threatens Melbourne as next bomb

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Riamus
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Post by Riamus » Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:15 pm

At the very least, the direct post war things would need finished. That includes any rebuilding and restructuring that happens. I can't imagine anyone disagreeing that the rebuilding and such needs to be done before you know how things will turn out. There is a huge difference in how things are for people directly after a war and how things are for them once they have everything rebuilt and such. Ask a person what he or she thinks of any war while siting and looking at his or her house in ruins, or ask that person what he or she thinks after getting into a new house and going back to work. The outlook will be much different. The person may still not like the war, but the outlook is still going to be different.

It is always wise to keep an open mind for the future rather than simply stating that you know what the future will bring. Or by saying someone is talking about fantasy if someone says the future may be different. I never said it will be different, just that it could be and that while all the post war stuff is going on, we can't make a truly valid judgement of the war. We can hypothesize and make educated guesses. Nothing more.

Do you know for certain that once the restructuring is done and Iraqis get to the point where they don't need US or British (or whoever else is over there) militaries to help keep the peace and rebuild, that things will definitely be worse for Iraqis? Sure, you can guess and hypothesize about the future, but there is no certainty. You are always saying that we can't know the future, yet you're also saying that you know the future to be worse because of the war.
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Darth Wong
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Post by Darth Wong » Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:52 pm

Riamus wrote: At the very least, the direct post war things would need finished. That includes any rebuilding and restructuring that happens.

Physical rebuilding is one thing, but Iraq as a society is a mess, and there is no sign that it will change.
I can't imagine anyone disagreeing that the rebuilding and such needs to be done before you know how things will turn out.

Yet you just saw me disagree. You can and should evaluate any plan in process if you want to evaluate how well it's going. Do you think that people doing a major construction project say "well, I can't tell you whether we're doing well because it's not finished yet, even though we're two years behind schedule and $100 million over budget and a half-dozen workers have fallen to their deaths?" :roll:
Do you know for certain that once the restructuring is done and Iraqis get to the point where they don't need US or British (or whoever else is over there) militaries to help keep the peace and rebuild, that things will definitely be worse for Iraqis?

I know for certain that every pre-war prediction by the Bush Administration has been proven false, and every pre-war prediction by his critics has come true. That's more than enough evidence to say that things aren't going well.
Sure, you can guess and hypothesize about the future, but there is no certainty. You are always saying that we can't know the future, yet you're also saying that you know the future to be worse because of the war.

I know that the plan is a disaster because nothing has worked out according to the plan; it has failed in every major aspect. Now they're saying that they can salvage something from this mess; that may be possible, but I'll wait till I see evidence of this new direction before I use it to dismiss what I'm seeing right before my eyes right now.
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bad driver
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Post by bad driver » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:18 pm

the rat wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:It's interesting to note that Kadafi, dictator of Libya, once occupied a position very similar to the position occupied by Hussein.


Gaddafi (as our media spelt it) is an interesting case to bring up. I'm fairly sure I remember Blair not so long ago saying how wonderful he was as a man and how trustworthy he now is.

And let's not forget, Osama was also a friend of the West many years ago. It's strange how these people go from enemies to friends or vice versa.


All interesting points but lets not forget exactly how Hussein became to be the man in power, its not as if he was helped into power by lets say England and America, nor was he sold weapons by these two countries :roll: Exactly how thewar on terror came about into invading Iraq I will never know. One minute it was all about catching Osama in afganistahn, next thing its about liberating Iraq from dictatorship. But somewhere along the way it was also about their weapons of mass destruction only that was soon dropped because in actual fact there werent any and the man who held the evidence that proved their never was any real evidence to invade iraq suddenly died, HHHMMM, conspiracy theories go overdrive really.
Look at the bigger picture, We interfere in who has power in a country (Iraq), then give them arms to invade other countries (Iraq/Iran) then we interfere in that war to get the other country to be our friend (gadaffi) and we can then turn on our newly formed evil dictator (hussein) on the back of an atrosity supposedly caused by an old friend in a completly different country(osama). Sorry to say but I only see one common denominator across all countries concerned and thats one of the best commodities in the world, OIL.

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Post by R. U. Serious » Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:53 am

Darth Wong wrote: Now they're saying that they can salvage something from this mess; that may be possible,


But it's already happening and quite effective as well:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/artic ... _iraq_war/
If the US doesn't protect the oil, then the terrorists win - and it's hard to argue with that...

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Post by phantomk » Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:59 pm

'We will defeat the terrorists," Bush said. ''We will build a free Iraq that will fight terrorists instead of giving them aid and sanctuary."

Why do you want to build a mini US to fight the battles you can't win ... Just how exactly would a small country with limitied to no resources be able to fight terrorisim on a global scale ? Does Bush really believe that Iraq is the only place that harbors Terrorists ? Has Bush even considered the possibility that Osama could be in China ? Russia ? India ? or some other big country where he could easily hide out.
he was cutting his August vacation short

When is he not on vacation ....
''They'd seize oil fields to fund their ambitions. They could recruit more terrorists by claiming a historic victory over the United States and our coalition."

And the US want's the oil to make puppies and flowers grow everywhere .... The US wants the oil and I doubt very much that oil is the main concern for Terrorists who by all accounts would be assassinated in an instant if the US had the chance. How would the Terrorists sxactly gain control of these oil fields. Would they use thier army's of tanks and mass army's to secure Iraq ?

The war has always been about the oil fields and with Bush haveing to "show his hand" pubilcly about why they are really thier only shows how desperate he is to keep the war on. I wonder how long it will be before everyone catchs up and figures it out ...

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Post by Nimbostratus » Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:25 pm

I'll tell you how long this is going to hold: at least a few more months ... at most : about 3 years.... NOBODY will want Bush as a president when he does what he is doing.
But then again Very Common People will vote with him couse he will say
We need the oil.... if America doesn't have oil then Russia or any other country will get control of world power

Shush....like if America falls the rest of the world won't. Most of Europe's economy is based on America's. BUT it's also the other way around.... a little bit otherwise but on major outlines it is. If Europe falls in 10 years America will fall.
So why the rally for the oil?... Agreed to get the oil but what America should do is start chasing atomic energy and solar energy and get over all of that "no oil" problem.

As for the Muslims, they're not bad at all.
At least muslims have the decency to work. My best internet friend is a muslim, and I have not met a person nicer ever in my life not to mention we're split by several thousand miles.
As for the terrorists... MAYBE Bush is right but his method is so damn wrong... he should mind the terrorists inside his own country, talking of course about gangs, that put guns in children's hands and then get themselves killed; It made me tremble to death when i entered Richmond ( about 50 miles... 100 can't remember, south of Wash. D.C.) through I -95, when i was dropped into a block as i have never seen in my life.
As for Al-Quaeda... agreed that they did WTC. But something keeps on bothering them for one or another reason... probably they want to be free again....but that will never happen... Why?... simple... they accuse Osama that he did MAJOR crimes against the world so he will never stop chasing him.

Result:

Bombings will not stop until either there are no terrorists left, either ALL of the leaders are caught INCLUDING Osama.

Aftermath:

Thousands of people have to die because ONE PERSON wants to chase ANOTHER PERSON!!!!!

Hope this clears up the minds of some people around here :!: :!: :)

Edit: Agreed Sith Lord :D :wink:
Last edited by Nimbostratus on Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:36 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Darth Wong
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Post by Darth Wong » Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:53 pm

Nimbostratus wrote: As for the Muslims, they're not bad. They're a lot better then jews for an instance... not saying that jews are bad but those that are still uncivilized or living in 3rd "world" countryies ( can't remember the exact word) are way too greedy don't even settle in on working... they prefer easier jobs like... mailman, banker, etc.

Do not hijack this thread or any other thread with stereotypical ethnic generalizations like that again. That kind of comment is unacceptable.
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