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Swizec
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Post by Swizec » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:08 am

all I do all day is school and computer... I do all my homework staring at this screen and I sleep for less than 8 hours, so yeah, 16hrs a day it is

and yes it is true a comp can't loan money, but I never do taht because then people want for you to do the same and blah... I just us emy own money if I can mmkay... as for taking care when you're sick... there's nothing better in the world to do when you're sick than to spen the whole day behind a computer since you don't go to school :P

Brent C. Stevens
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Post by Brent C. Stevens » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:26 am

Back in the old days, there wasn't much you could do to your home computers apart from add on expansion packs. If you wanted a better "newer generation" computer, you'd have to buy a new one.

Last weekend I was going through a box of old computer bits that were obsolete left-overs from cfountless upgrades. There were things like 9.6K modems, 5 1/4" Floppy drives, and even a full height 5MB Winchester Hard Disk Drive! For those that don't know, full height is actually the equivilent of 2 CD/DVD ROM drives. (Which use half-height bays). Countless other bits and pieces, ready to list and sell to someone who has more spare time and money than me on Ebay!

The fact is, that in thepast 10 years, I must have built over 50 systems, with about 20 of them being upgrades. The computer I'm using is probably something like an 8th generation system from an original Pentium 75. Not a single part of the original PC remains, however, the "Soul" ofthe computer has carried forward, as there is always something that is carried forward from one system to another like a hard drive, or a graphics card, etc.

I'm afraid with motherboards getting better and the manufacturers sticking some pretty good equipment on-board, it'll only the the hard drive and case in the future that may get transferred.
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ibmsystems
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Post by ibmsystems » Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:03 pm

oops this post showed up

please delete!
Last edited by ibmsystems on Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ibmsystems
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Post by ibmsystems » Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:03 pm

Magnotta wrote:
Swizec wrote:Something I spend 16hours of my day with can only ever be a friend I'd say


16 hours a day....ok, lets see, 24 hours in a day, minus 8 hours of sleep......ok, don't take this the wrong way, but maybe its time to cut back and get some flesh and blood friends.

If not, remember, the computer still isn't really a friend. It will not loan you a few bucks for a beer, it wont take care of you when your sick, it won't shed a tear when you die, and if there's a power outage it will completely turn it's back on you.


Yes but i also work long hours on my computer usually 8am to 1 am

Swizec
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Post by Swizec » Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:54 pm

ibmsystems wrote:
Magnotta wrote:
Swizec wrote:Something I spend 16hours of my day with can only ever be a friend I'd say


16 hours a day....ok, lets see, 24 hours in a day, minus 8 hours of sleep......ok, don't take this the wrong way, but maybe its time to cut back and get some flesh and blood friends.

If not, remember, the computer still isn't really a friend. It will not loan you a few bucks for a beer, it wont take care of you when your sick, it won't shed a tear when you die, and if there's a power outage it will completely turn it's back on you.


Yes but i also work long hours on my computer usually 8am to 1 am


That's a good thing, I'm trying to get a computer job too.

Had one once, was an admin at a big company... stupid phones, I still have the phobia damn it.
Why won't people at big companies just learn how to use their worktools?

Magnotta
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Post by Magnotta » Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:18 am

ibmsystems wrote:
Magnotta wrote:
Swizec wrote:Something I spend 16hours of my day with can only ever be a friend I'd say


16 hours a day....ok, lets see, 24 hours in a day, minus 8 hours of sleep......ok, don't take this the wrong way, but maybe its time to cut back and get some flesh and blood friends.

If not, remember, the computer still isn't really a friend. It will not loan you a few bucks for a beer, it wont take care of you when your sick, it won't shed a tear when you die, and if there's a power outage it will completely turn it's back on you.


Yes but i also work long hours on my computer usually 8am to 1 am


But do you consider your computer your friend, as was th point of my post, or do you consider it a tool to do your work. If you see it as a machine to do your job, then theres no problem there, no matter long you spend on it, but when you think of it as an actual companion......

Swizec
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Post by Swizec » Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:26 pm

Magnotta wrote:
ibmsystems wrote:
Magnotta wrote:
Swizec wrote:Something I spend 16hours of my day with can only ever be a friend I'd say


16 hours a day....ok, lets see, 24 hours in a day, minus 8 hours of sleep......ok, don't take this the wrong way, but maybe its time to cut back and get some flesh and blood friends.

If not, remember, the computer still isn't really a friend. It will not loan you a few bucks for a beer, it wont take care of you when your sick, it won't shed a tear when you die, and if there's a power outage it will completely turn it's back on you.


Yes but i also work long hours on my computer usually 8am to 1 am


But do you consider your computer your friend, as was th point of my post, or do you consider it a tool to do your work. If you see it as a machine to do your job, then theres no problem there, no matter long you spend on it, but when you think of it as an actual companion......


Actual companion... that would be going a bit too far...

But when you think of it, a computer is a much better friend than who most 18yearolds these days call really good friends.
I mean, it never really disapoints you, if it does it's your fault anyways, it does what you tell it to do, it provides fun when you want to and it enver buggs you when you jsut want to go do something else. In many ways a computer can be a good friend.
But in many fields it lacks the same abilities... Just what you want more is what matters.

Do you want someone/thing to have fun with and be creative and stuff,
or do you want someone with which even a school project takes twice as long because you can't help but goof around all the time.

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Post by nblythin » Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:31 pm

An inanimate electronic device as a "friend" or "companion"? Wow!

I think people really, really need to learn to get off their chair and interact with other people. Now, don't get me wrong, I know that participating with others through a forum, email, or instant messaging is to some degree interacting with other people... and that's fine for part of your social life.

However to do it for the number of hours that people have been kicking around here? That's just not healthy. 16 hours a day - I've done that (working towards a deadline on a major project). Do that regularly, and in the long term you'll need (thick) glasses, and probably a back brace too.

Cheers,
Neil

...Oh, what's that? My microwave is getting lonely - I better go keep it company.

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Post by Brent C. Stevens » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:29 pm

I'm a member of the International Institute of Risk and Safety management, and while health dangers from display screen equipment are evident, they don't affect everyone. I do wing chun kung fu and rowing as hobbies to get me out and exercised, have a large screen, and sit a suitable distance away from it so not to have gouged my eyes out with VDU badness.

I'm one of these people who have in thepast over-used computers, being at them every waking hour of the day. I'm heavily into computers, they are my profession, and I respect them as tools, not as friends. I have friends I made over the internet, as well as local friends. I even met my financee over the internet, and we've got a great relationship. I realise as I've got older, there's more out there then being stuck in front of a computer, so I try to limit my computer use to week-days, during work hours, and occasionally in the evenings, while my Fiancee is busy on the other computer doing her Master's degree research.

I've been working with computers now for 25 years! Longer than some of you have been around! No back problems and still have 20/20 vision.
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nblythin
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Post by nblythin » Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:32 pm

Hi Brent;

I 100% agree that regular use of a computer as a tool and for recreation is fine. My comments were more for those claiming 14+ Hours per day. That number of hours doesn't allow for the medically recommended amount of sleep (varies depending on age etc) PLUS sufficient time for person to person socialization, fresh air and excercise.

The hours just don't add up. In the specific example given 16 hrs computing + (recommended) 8 hrs sleep = 0 hrs air & excercise. If the person isn't spending 8 hours sleeping, they risk sleep deprivation, and it's long term result "sleep debt". This in itself has well documented negative health effects. As someone involved in risk & safety would you recommend this schedule over the long term? (i.e. over years). I would not be convinced of it's health benefits.

Monitors (VDU's) & Vision: You're absolutely right, the radiation and EM from them has been proven harmless by many studies and agencies. My greater concern is that reading anything for 16 hours, especially from a source that's at a fixed distange away could lead to eyestrain. Proper lighting helps to minimize this. Of course every individual varies and therefore so does their resistance / tollerance of such activity.

In my current position, I spend the better part of an 8 hour day at the computer plus a couple of hours in the evening. At an average of 10 hours each weekday and 3 hours each weekend day - that's 56 hours per week. That's more than enough for me. I am also an officer in the air force (reserves) which is what I do to keep fit. You should note that in a government work environment, a great deal of effort is put into ergonomic work stations to limit the negative health impact of spending long periods of time seated. This includes a good chair with lumbar support. They do this because of many incidents of back strain.

My concern is that young people, who often do what they want, and think they're indestructible (I know I was like that) should be aware that they can do themselves damage when they're young - that can impact their careers when they're older... something they may not consider. Have you ever told an 18 year old with exemplary school marks and otherwise good health "sorry, your eyesight isn't good enough to be an air force pilot". Trust me, you don't want to see the look on their face. I'm not an optometrist or optomologist (sp?), but I'd suspect that subjecting yourself to repeted eye strain doesn't help maintain perfect vision.

All I'm saying is that if the right precautions aren't taken - such habbits might have a health effect. There is enough information available for one to be well informed on the subject before making their own decisions. And whatever that decision is is fine by me. I'd recommend that people visit the website for their government health departments and workers compensation board before saying just how minimal the risks are. Repetitive stress (in the form of carple tunnel) is also factor for those with improper workstations and poor typing habits.

Anyways, that's all I have on the subject. Just my opinion from my own experiences.

Cheers,
Neil
Last edited by nblythin on Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Swizec
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Post by Swizec » Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:52 pm

You have a really good point on all that you've said, and quite frankly, I'm not really able of such good explanation of what I'm saying.

But, I do agree that 16hours doesn't leave much time for sleep but I find that with plenty of meditation I personally get by without suffering any ill effects that are supposed to be connected to sleep deprivation. Quite frankly, it's been prooven, or rather I've read that it was, that 15minutes of meditation count as much as 4 hours sleeping.
Honestly, I don't ALWAYS sleep so little, there are times where there isn't much work to be done and then yes, I do sleep more, but never over 5 hours because I simply cannot sleep for longer than that, doesn't work.

As for monitors and eye strain, and also back pain, I personally tend to move around a lot on my chair so I'm never in a fixed position for more than 30 minutes nor is the eye to monitor distance fixed for extended periods of time. My eyesight, well that hasn't been perfect since grade 1 of primary school, and I've dropped all hopes of ever being a pilot (which I believe many boys hope) way back then, 11 years ago.

And believe it or not, I do exercise, about 2tons of weights every night before bed (that's what it sums up to) and I find that to be enough for my needs.


As for people interaction, no arguments there, all studies, hell even my doctor, says I don't have enough, but that's not a matter for discussion here I think.


edit: oh yes, you say 16hours a day is too long behind a computer, well writing a novel, working on a software project, making phpBB mods and a computer science school kind of tend to leave me little other options.

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Post by ZoliveR » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:20 am

I'm not especially attached to a computer, even if i take (too) much time of my life behind my screen. I bought my first computer in '84 (Apple IIc) et my first PC in '95 (DX²66 4MB Ram, 540MB HDD) and now 10 years after, after a tower change and some boughts, the only thing that i have still of my '95 computer is my floppy drive, and my 14' CRT. (but it will be changed in 2006, it's dying slowly...

No i'm not nostalgic of hardware (exception for my lost Apple IIc that i've not anymore), but sometimes i'm nostalgic about some Software, some games; some stuffs. I can talk about that for hours and hours :)
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Post by Brent C. Stevens » Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:10 am

nblythin wrote: All I'm saying is that if the right precautions aren't taken - such habbits might have a health effect. There is enough information available for one to be well informed on the subject before making their own decisions. And whatever that decision is is fine by me. I'd recommend that people visit the website for their government health departments and workers compensation board before saying just how minimal the risks are. Repetitive stress (in the form of carple tunnel) is also factor for those with improper workstations and poor typing habits.


Exactly! What may be ok for one person could be detremental to the health effects of someone else. In Health & Safety, most of it is guidelines, based on chance (Risk). Some people get affected, some dont, and to further add to what you're saying, if you're one of the unfortunate people who by no real medical explanation ends up getting Work Related Upper Limb Disorders or eye problems, you probably won't know it until 10 or 20 years down the line. One thing I have noticed is that I have to make a effort to maintain good posture, otherwise I find myself hunched over in the chair. That could cause back problems problems for me in the future if I don't keep an eye on it.

On the eye-strain bit, I found something that's helped me - I have my computer by the window, so I'm able to gaze out over the road every now and then, like when I'm pondering on a new idea, or sipping my coffee.

That's the whole basis for the Health & Safety Industry's take on things. I used to work as a H&S risk assessment consultant for a while, until I realised it wasn't what I wanted to do in life, and concentrated on my graphics design/computing background. The experience however was a real eye-opener, and I still get trade journals giving some stories about how health and safety disasters. I would say that any employer should make absolutely sure that they follow DSE guidelines, and have a health & safety policy to (at the very least) cover this. It could save compensation lawsuits in the future. :wink:

Back onto nostalga, I'm very nostalgic about my old Sam Coupe computer. It was a 256K (Became 512K as standard with the inclusion of an internal RAM plugin accessed by unscrewing a panel on the base of the computer), had 6 channel stereo sound, 256 colour graphics, and ran on a Zilog Z80-B processor. It was a great computer, you could plug in 1MB rampacks on the back. I still have 2 of them and haven't got the heart to throw them away, even though I never use them any more.
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Post by mark5022 » Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:59 pm

I worked as a hardware teck for years and when I upgraded peoples systems they would sometimes let me have the old memory, video cards, motherboards, etc... That was how I got my upgrades.
I have reading glasses that help with the eye strain. They work well when I wear them.

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Post by Eskimo Mike » Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:44 am

An inanimate electronic device as a "friend" or "companion"? Wow!


That's what she said! :lol:

Computers are tools. Some may have a bit more style than others but they are still just tools to be used well or ill.

They won't talk to you, oh wait my Macs do.

But as an IT manager I prefer to extort money from computers. :twisted: :evil:

When I get home I rarely turn one on. I'd rather go ride my Harley!

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