Potential New Email "Tax"

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starfoxtj
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Potential New Email "Tax"

Post by starfoxtj » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:37 pm

Grassfire wrote: Last week, Grassfire launched an effort to stop AOL and Yahoo’s plan to impose a “sender fee” on organizations like Grassfire when we send email to our team members.

This “fee” is really a private-sector “tax” on groups like Grassfire that, I believe, will open the door for more fees, taxes and regulations on email. It could very well mark the beginning of the end of the free Internet. Here’s why…


This does not look to good.
AOL and Yahoo DO have a very big influance on email, and if they do this things might turn out too well.
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Post by Newfie » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:51 pm

E-Mail should be free for messages under 128 KB or 256 KB including attachments. I don't blame them charging for messages above a specific limit (128 KB or 256 KB or something) since those can be bandwidth pigs, or for charging those who use it a lot (like someone who receives/sends many hundreds of e-mails a day).

Yes it should be free but bandwidth is not free so for those users of AOL/Yahoo, take it easy with the bandwidth if you are not already.

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Post by starfoxtj » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:53 pm

Newfie wrote: Yes it should be free but bandwidth is not free so for those users of AOL/Yahoo, take it easy with the bandwidth if you are not already.

Why do you think you pay for larger email boxes and attachment size options?
There is no need for this tax, its only for them to make $$$.
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Post by niksa » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:10 pm

Sure it takes up bandwidth, but most free mail services have ads, subscription services and other add-on services to more than make up for the loss.

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Post by Newfie » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:13 pm

starfoxtj wrote: Why do you think you pay for larger email boxes and attachment size options?


Oh yes, if you need extra capability above what you already have, you can buy it.

Yet I'm not sure how much longer we can take our existing service for granted. Perhaps they can shrink our existing bandwidth/mailbox size limits if they feel that they're already giving away too much for free?

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Post by starfoxtj » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:24 pm

Newfie wrote:
starfoxtj wrote:Why do you think you pay for larger email boxes and attachment size options?


Oh yes, if you need extra capability above what you already have, you can buy it.

Yet I'm not sure how much longer we can take our existing service for granted. Perhaps they can shrink our existing bandwidth/mailbox size limits if they feel that they're already giving away too much for free?

Not at all.

Yahoo is the one who CHOSE to give everyone 400% larger inboxes.
They didnt have to do that, they just did it to compete with others.

If they felt they were giving away too much for free, they would not of done that.


This is just a way to make money. Think about it, these companies will make BILLIONS. They dont care about the customer, they just want their profit.

This is not a case of spam either. AOL clearly stated they already stop 75 PERCENT of spam, now all of a sudden they want to do this to "help" the customer? Puuuulease! :roll:


Spam is not that big of a problem. Yahoo removes 98% of all my spam, aol does about the same. Even for the end user, they just install some spam filtering software and the majority of it goes away.

This "help combat spam" reason is just an excuse for these companies to extort money from their customers while appearing saintly.
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Post by Newfie » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:40 pm

Even snail mail, at 50 cents a stamp, there's still plenty of advertising.

What sucks, is that spammers might be smart enough to sneak around these fees, so the price of spam may not go up very much, if at all.

If they're that bent on getting a little extra cash, they could just increase their ISP monthly fee by a few dollars flat rate (and people that don't use e-mail can save that money if they cancel the e-mail service).

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Re: Potential New Email "Tax"

Post by Anaximander Thales » Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:14 pm

starfoxtj wrote:
Grassfire wrote:Last week, Grassfire launched an effort to stop AOL and Yahoo’s plan to impose a “sender fee” on organizations like Grassfire when we send email to our team members.

This “fee” is really a private-sector “tax” on groups like Grassfire that, I believe, will open the door for more fees, taxes and regulations on email. It could very well mark the beginning of the end of the free Internet. Here’s why…


This does not look to good.
AOL and Yahoo DO have a very big influance on email, and if they do this things might turn out too well.


Here's another story on that: EFF Story

It's not just 'taxing' e-mail. It's a pay to send - and along with this payment, they override your spam filters and give certain 'e-mails' an AOL 'certification;' the certification says essentially that this e-mail is okay because AOL says it okay.

There thought behind this is that if people have to pay (from the story 0.0025 per e-mail), then there won't be any spam. AOL, as well as reputable ISPs, already watch for people sending a lot of e-mail and shut them down or ban them all together for sending spam.
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Post by MHobbit » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:11 am

This is just a way to make money. Think about it, these companies will make BILLIONS. They dont care about the customer, they just want their profit.


Do you honestly think that the companies are able to render all of their current free services without any cost to them? Yes, they have ads, but they may not sufficiently cover these costs.

You are also ignoring the fact that companies are pretty much driven by that very word: profit. Companies may care about the consumer, but I'd say that their main concern is their profit. If there is no profit to be made, there is still at least covering what they have invested.
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Post by pr0gr4mm3r » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:07 pm

So this cost is only for sending email, right? Because I send my email through my website mail servers, so does that mean it wouldn't affect me?
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Post by Pezzoni » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:33 pm

If it bothers you, then don't use their services.
For a few quid a year you can have a POP3 email account, with a name of your choice, no attatchment limits, a spam filter that actually works somewhere between 'General Von Klinkerhoffen' and 'Not At All', and no adverts.

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Post by Anaximander Thales » Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:28 pm

Pezzoni wrote: If it bothers you, then don't use their services.

That assumes that AOL, Yahoo and Goodmail's plan doesn't produce profits. Thus, making other companies (from American at least) go 'Hmmm...'
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Post by Anaximander Thales » Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:33 pm

pr0gr4mm3r wrote: So this cost is only for sending email, right? Because I send my email through my website mail servers, so does that mean it wouldn't affect me?

Not necessarily. I had my own mail-server in my home, but I was unable to send out e-mail through my server due to my ISP's spam-filter mechanisms. I had to set up to send my e-mail through my ISP's server, but recieve on my server. In this case, should my ISP decide to charge for me to send an e-mail, I would still get charged. However (in the case of AOL certified mail), my own spam filters, blocks and other things to keep out the spam would still be in effect.
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Post by starfoxtj » Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:37 pm

Pezzoni wrote: If it bothers you, then don't use their services.
For a few quid a year you can have a POP3 email account, with a name of your choice, no attatchment limits, a spam filter that actually works somewhere between 'General Von Klinkerhoffen' and 'Not At All', and no adverts.

The thing is, SOOOO many emails users are completely clueless and would continue to use AOL/Yahaoo because its all they know and dont want to change email addresses.

Trust me, I have some customers who wont switch over to firefox because it "looks different" so I keep coming back to their house every month removing all the spyware that gets right through IE.
Others have a REAL hard time dumping AOL for broadband and I need to sit there for 30 minutes convincing them of them the benifit of it.


Alot of the average users dont seem to care about things like this, either because they dont understand it, think it wont affect them, or as stated above, dont want to change their email addresses or service.



Also, this "fee" would charge people IF they wanted their email received by AOL/Yahoo members. Which leads to another interested point stated above: They say they are doing this to combat spam, but I have a feeling they will allow certain "spam" emails to get right through their filters and into the customer's inbox if the sender pays an extra "handling" fee.
So no matter what the customer does, the email would still go through the spam filter.



Lets not forget, that once companies like aol/yahoo do this, others will definitly follow suit, why? Because they would make MILLIONS (maybe even billions as the source says they handle 15billion emails per day).
Pretty soon you wont be able to find an ISP that does NOT charge for lettign their customer's receive email.
Once companies start making to much profit on this, the government will almost certainly step in and start creating a federal tax because so much revenue is being made. Heck, the government currently wants to charge tax for sales on Ebay and for selling "virtual goods" on online games that people sell for real money!


Once this fee (or eventually tax) is implimented, it can potentionally bring alot of services to a dead stop. PHPBB for example wont be able to pay to send out all of their notification emails becuase even if its only fractions of a cent per email charge, it would still cost way more then phpbb could handle (because they are a community driven site and dont have a standard "income" like companies, just revenue from sale of their mr bear etc).

Even companies that DO make money will have to stop their email services.
For example, secutina sends out probably hundreds of thousands, if not millions of emails per day regarding new security alerts. Same with mcafee, symantec etc.
These companies would have to spend thousands upon thousands to send out all of those emails on a regular basis, most would simply stop doing it or charge the customers a fee.

Before long, its possible that you wont be able to get ANY sort of email notifications for anything unless you pay for it.
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Post by Newfie » Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:08 pm

In spite of the annoyance of pay-per-email, I can see a lot of good coming from it.

People would be more likely to treat it with respect.
Flaming may decrease, who wants to pay for a heated argument?
Bandwidth savings mean better service.
The companies might be more inspired to make sure their e-mail service is in mint condition and/or improve the e-mail client(s) for better usability to encourage people to use e-mail.
The e-mail you do get, you can appreciate it more because someone had to PAY to send it. You're less likely to get e-mail for foolishness (even from friends/colleagues/co-workers).
Before hitting the send button, people would think harder about what they're sending.
Resumes, the hiring manager would have less resumes to sort through since less job hunters would use the shotgun approach (job applying by e-mail)
And so on...

In essence, it may force people to be better e-mail users.

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