Commercial vs. Open Source

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SamG
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Re: Commercial vs. Open Source

Post by SamG » Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:25 pm

Stallyon wrote: I saw some interesting dribble over on IPS's official forums. They are saying "commercial is far more secure".

That's just trash talk, and I think they know it. Anybody over there who's been around for any length of time knows IPB's roots. Back before IPB was a commercial product the IPB (and Matt-era Ikonboard) community wasn't spouting this kind of nonsense.

Matt and company backstabbed the open source and free software (and phpBB) communities when it suited them, and IMHO, those communities have every reason and right to find the IPB point of view on this issue irrelevant.

gr8graphix
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Post by gr8graphix » Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:58 pm

I currently have a client requesting a BB, I have always used phpBB and only got my underwear hacked out from under me just once and I can say I was too lacks on updating my software. My client has a friend who runs a similar biz and after numerous hacks into his phpBB he has switched to vBulletin citing this argument (commercial better the os) and has convinced my client to do the same. Is phpBB so bad that i need to look at other sources? It is that its NOT an open source vs commercial issue and more of a phpBB is full of holes issue?

hornydevil
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Post by hornydevil » Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:24 am

In my opinion, every piece of software can be hacked and cracked. Commercial or non-commercial, there will always be loopholes, there's no way of making something completely secure.

But then again, I have no idea how many users phpBB, vB and IPB have, but I think phpBB has more users, and therefor more people aiming to crack it. Since it's more pleasant to crack 1 board, and then use it on a whole lot of others, then making a crack and using it on less board.

That last sentence didn't make much sense, but I think you can all understand me :)

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jcapuccino
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Post by jcapuccino » Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:20 am

hornydevil wrote: In my opinion, every piece of software can be hacked and cracked. Commercial or non-commercial, there will always be loopholes, there's no way of making something completely secure


right on. in the end, it's a matter of choosing the lesser evil. however, i understand how they can make all that trash talk being 'secure', much like how i always make trash talk about how i am not fat, just big boned. those who are caught hook, line and sinker, well, become dinner. those who know better get to post stuff like these. there will always be two sides to everything. i.e. - i read this somewhere, and i was rotfl - but the people i shared this with just called me weird. little do they know. anyway, here goes:

there are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who dont.
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Post by C2 » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:19 pm

phpBB is a great piece of software. I think the only real issues people have with it are getting it to do what you want. AS IS, it works great, is very secure, and does exactly what it was designed for. However, customizing it to fit your needs can be very time consuming and difficult. You have these great people who write mods for phpBB, but there is no guarantee that a mod you install for a current version of phpBB is going to work properly with the next update. Most of the time beta and released mods work without much fuss, but nothing is a guarantee. In my experience that is my only gripe with phpBB and/or any free cms/forum software.

slightly ot, but still relevant:
For instance, I recently updated the (Dis)allow signatures and avatars mod by myself, i'm wwx over there, just so it would work with 2.0.21. The mod was created 3 years ago and it is unfortunate there is no team designated to upkeep mods like this. However, I'm not sure how anyone could keep up with the different versions of software licensings. I wouldn't be surprised if I violated someone's rights by fixing a broken mod :roll: .

What I think phpbb needs are more communities building premodded versions of the system. This would help ensure specific mods will always work with the latest phpbb versions. As for phpbb.com I really would like to see a few changes in the way mods are handled. For instance, I fail to understand why abandoned mod threads get locked. It would make much more sense to simply edit the subject line and state that it has been abandoned but still leave the threads open for users to discuss and/or post updates to them. I also hate seeing 5+ locked threads of a mod that has been taken over by multiple authors or simply renamed. Some threads are 500+ pages long and it isn't until the last page that I find out a new thread has opened which has also been locked and moved to yet another thread, and then evenually abandoned or simply unsupported by phpbb.com. Again, why not make that clear in the subject line or atleast the first post?

Other than that, phpBB is great, and free is almost always as good or better than paid software. Matter of fact, other than Windows XP Pro, nearly every piece of software I use on my computer is free.

Firefox
Sunbelt Kerio Personal Firewall
Java Runtime Environment
7-Zip
Free Download Manager
Net Transport
VLC Media Player
Real Player Alternative
Flash Player
Shockwave Player
Foxit Reader
Flashgot Extension
Firetune Plugin
Avast Antivirus
Avast Virus Cleaner
SpyBot Search & Destroy
Ad-Aware
Ad-Aware VX2 Add-On
Spyware Blaster
HijackThis
CWShredder
BugOff
Gaim
Calypso/Courier Email Client
XanaNews News Reader
Azureus Bit Torrent Client
RSS Bandit
Eraser
Open Office Suite
Crimson Editor
GTK+ Runtime Environment
The GIMP
The GIMP Animation Package
exPressit DVD/CD Label Maker
Video DVD Maker
DVD2AVI Ripper
Virtual Dub
SUPER Video Tools
FileZilla FTP Client

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Post by Newfie » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:17 pm

Sourcing may be a factor. Any Tom, Dick, and Harry could put together his own Linux, while only Microsoft would usually make a Windows.

Of course there are several good Linuxes, but it is hard to find them due to the sheer number of Linuxes out there.

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Post by Yawner » Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:20 am

Although everything i now use is open source software wise, I think that closed source does have its place, espically in business. I think that if Microsoft didnt have closed source then piracy would run riot and thats something you cannot hold against them, I mean who wants an unsuccessful business?

On the flipside however I feel that closed source actually creates less secure code as its not scrutinised by a large enough base of users to be considered from all angles, I may not be talking to the Apples and Microsofts of this world who have warehouses full of testers, but think of the number of small companies that will have this problem..

Yawnster

PS.. Newfie: try Linux Distros :P
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Post by erk » Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:33 pm

I think it's not the software model which makes the difference but the size of company/community behind it. If open source project has enough muscle, it can be even much better then the commercial one. If it's just one guys aventure the further development and security updates will depend on free time and will of one person, regardless if you pay him/her for it or not. I know of very interesting and good open source projects which has been almost abandoned and I know of few commercial suppliers which give as really hard time, because they are not interested in or not able to assign more resources, to the software they sold us.
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Post by TZX » Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:03 am

hoochiedemon wrote: i'll keep my point very short.

Microsoft windows is not open source even though they have been order to show some of there source to competitors anywayz back to the point.

How many known viruses are there for windows? This comment alone should prove that just cuz it isn't open source that it's had alot of hate pointed towards it.

It's not a simple question open Vs closed.

I think a better one would be why pay when you dont have to.

THANK YOU!!

in other words: Commercial can be just as easily exploited as an open source product (for less smart people: Invision boards can be just as easily exploited than a phpBB board)

Final Answer: Open source can be more secure because of its OPENness....

people will find bugs and fix them if they are smart enough, they report bugs (hence the bug tracker)

whereas IPB finds bugs themselves and releases patches, yet you have to pay for them and there are always MORE bugs in the code.....
theres a saying: 999 bugs in the code, 999 bugs, debug one, 1000 bugs in the code.

This means that there will ALWAYS be exploits, reguardless if its commercial or open source, open source has more of an advantage though.

radnam
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Post by radnam » Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:04 pm

hello,

let me say it in simple words open source rocks, major companies are using open source and then again windows is like a bug which started samll and now has grown bigger than a ekepahnt with load of problems every thing needs their permission.

open source you are the god and you are incharge of your security and when it bout your security no one will slip up.

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Post by affilit » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:06 am

When hackers R letting cash machines give out 20 doller bills insted of 5 doller bills its time to relise nothing is safe. :(
Just cross ye fingers and hope your not that one in 500,000 that gets turned Over. 8O

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Re: Commercial vs. Open Source

Post by R45 » Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:31 pm

SamG wrote: That's just trash talk, and I think they know it. Anybody over there who's been around for any length of time knows IPB's roots. Back before IPB was a commercial product the IPB (and Matt-era Ikonboard) community wasn't spouting this kind of nonsense.

Matt and company backstabbed the open source and free software (and phpBB) communities when it suited them, and IMHO, those communities have every reason and right to find the IPB point of view on this issue irrelevant.

Completely agree with the veteran above. Anyone from IPS that tries that argument just need to be reminded where Mr. Mechman came from, and exactly what his selling point was when he first released IPB.

The license and nature of the source code has absolutely no relevance to the product's security. There is no blanket statement and you cannot refer to any trend, it can only be evaluated on a product by product basis, with the activity of both development teams being the deciding factor..

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Post by Caedmon » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:03 pm

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