Windows Vista vs Mac OS X

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Anon
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Re: Windows Vista vs Mac OS X

Post by Anon »

handy1 wrote:
Anon wrote:There are free antivirus programs out there (AVG, Avast, Clamwin anyone?), the 3 common antispyware programs are free (Windows defender, Ad-Aware and Spybot)


OK?...Your not wasting time dealing with this than? To me, having to install, update, and manage these programs IS a waste of time. Additionally, some consumers don't have the technological know-how to effectively deal with this crap. I have been to my father-in-law's on at least two occations to do clean install becuase of problems with viruses and/or spyware. He should have got a Mac! :P [/b]


Of course I'm not. Installing it is hardly a waste of time, and the programs auto manage and update themselves. As for your father in law, did you blindly put the windows cd in, spend an hour or two drinking coffee and then leave when the base install was done? If you'd made sure the basic, free, self managing protection was there (as what I have done with my mother's laptop) then there should be no need for any second time rounds (or first time for that matter)
smithy_dll wrote:Most hardware instability issues are incurred when people install hardware that doesn't have Microsoft Digitally Signed Drivers for it.


Oh...I see! But I thought it was the Mac that had compatability problems! :wink:


erm, no. All retail hardware from any even remotely heard of brand name will have signed drivers. It is in reality only the really old or really new (IE alpha, beta et cetera) drivers that cause problems. Besides, XP doesn't need special drivers most of the time. My USB hub, mouse, keyboard and external hard drive all have special drivers, but I've never felt the need to install them
BTW, have you guys ever used Mac OS X?


Yes. Of the computers I have tried it on, it is the most unstable OS I think I have ever seen. Even on emacs and only 4 programs running, it is in constant need of a reboot or other form of teacher intervention to get it working properly. Yet the guy that manages them insists they are god's gift, and run perfectly fine...
Because, without regard for price, if one puts the OSs side-by-side, OS X is cleary better!


In what way?
Though with that said, you still have price to consider! There will be those 3% that drive the Mercedes, and other will just buy Fords...again, it's economics and personal choice.


The problem here is that all cars run on all types of road. You don't need special knowledge to drive a car, or use it for that matter.
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Post by smithy_dll »

I've had drivers from some well known vendors (*cough* belkin *cough*) that weren't signed. It really makes you appreciate the Microsoft Driver Signing programme.

The other problem is incurred when running third party software. This isn't so much of an issue due to the amount of isolation windows usually puts software in compared to other software. This was a problem on Win9x, but it's easy to kill a process and not take down your entire computer on the NT Kernel.

Again, third party programs malfunctioning are not Microsoft's fault, nor should they be expected to make poorly coded programs magically 'work'.
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Post by handy1 »

Out of the box OS X is better!
  • More applications bundled out of the box...get everything you need for personal computing! The iLife Suite is MS Office for home computing.
  • Automator...with a click of a single button I can automate all kinds of tasks, without even launching a program! For example, my website requires a lot of batch photo processing. I can hook up my camera, from the Finder I right-click, select my automation, it downloads my photos, crops/resizes/compresses them, and sticks them in a specified folder. Hell, automator can even take pictures with my camara!
  • Spotlight...simply awesome!
  • Expose'...makes multitasking easy, and therfore saves time and money!
  • As my daughters are getting older, and using the computer more, I've found the parental controls are easier and superior.
  • Better looking GUI
Yeh...you can argue you can do some of these with Windows, but you can't, you need third party software! Again, wasted time paying, installing, and updating!

Speaking of wasting my time...it's a waste of my time to argue this anymore. Use what ever computer you want...I could care less! I have plenty of experience with both, mostly windows, and I will continue to buy macs for now.

Cheers!
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Post by AdamR »

handy1 wrote: More applications bundled out of the box...get everything you need for personal computing! The iLife Suite is MS Office for home computing.


Sorry, but iLife comes no where close to MS Office in terms of features and what you can do with it. Granted, iLife does get the basics down, but in all honesty, what computer can you buy now days from any manufactuer that doesn't have, say, Microsoft Works installed with no time limit? HP, Gateway, Toshiba, and Sony all do for their entire laptop (and desktop, I'd assume, havn't confirmed that) line now. Regardless, OO.org is only a few clicks away.

Either way, MS Office is more powerful.
Automator...with a click of a single button I can automate all kinds of tasks, without even launching a program! For example, my website requires a lot of batch photo processing. I can hook up my camera, from the Finder I right-click, select my automation, it downloads my photos, crops/resizes/compresses them, and sticks them in a specified folder. Hell, automator can even take pictures with my camara!


Google's Picasa. Love it. Of course, I prefer to shoot in RAW and edit my photos first. Granted, doesn't come with a PC, but how the heck does downloading and installing a 4.6MB file waste significant time? :?
[*]Spotlight...simply awesome!


Apple clearly "came out" with that feature first. But only after Microsoft had developed and publically documented it. Oh, and Leopard is an answer to Vista's implementation of their own invention. As it stands with Tiger, Windows Search is significantly more powerful.

Expose'...makes multitasking easy, and therfore saves time and money!


Saves money? How? :? Actually, I know where all my apps are on the toolbar and have immediate access to all of them. Right now, I have 15 windows open, 28 tabs in Firefox. I multitask ... bigtime. This isn't even coming close to what I usually have.
As my daughters are getting older, and using the computer more, I've found the parental controls are easier and superior.


Okay. You got me there. But personally, if/when I have kids, I'd put a control on them by my words, not letting some computer do it for them. Trust is the key. However, I found it interesting that when I tested these in OS X, I could easily get around them. For example, downloading/mounting Firefox to get to any and all web sites that I wanted.
Better looking GUI


Opinion. I for one absolutly despise Aqua. Anyone please feel free to slap me if I ever design a light grey and baby blue website. Gah! I feel like I'm operating a child's toy, not a sophisticated machine. I want features, menus upon menus, hundreds of ways to customize.
Yeh...you can argue you can do some of these with Windows, but you can't, you need third party software! Again, wasted time paying, installing, and updating!


All and more, more like it. I recently installed Windows MCE on a new computer I got. Installation took around 35 minutes. Customizing Windows? Around 10 minutes. Downloading and installing all the apps I use regularly? Another 45. Added up (I have the list right here), that's 78 apps. Time consuming? Hardly.

What I can't stand is Mac users saying you're an idiot if you use a PC and Windows. They make completely twisted claims (ie, Apple commercials).

By one example, a Mac friend of mine challenged me that it was impossible to crash a Mac. I took him up on that challenge and 20 minutes later, I succesfully crashed it. How? Memory overflow. It literally pushed OS X out of memory. He then proceeded to say it didn't count because when I did that, all of OS X wasn't there to help stop the overflow.

In the end, like you said, everyone needs to feel comfortable with what they're using. I for one find myself unable to work in an OS X environment. Not because I don't know how to use it (I'm quite knowledable in OS X), but the environment limits me, honestly.

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Post by Erisar »

Heh, I fear we are falling back into the typical argument that either side is daft for using what operating system they are using.

I use both OS X and Windows, but I suppose I'm not as much of a power user as some. I've a question for everyday Windows users: I have a few ideas myself, but what (specifically) do you find "limiting" in OS X?

Also, just two quick notes that stuck out to me in this thread so far:
AdamR wrote:
handy1 wrote:More applications bundled out of the box...get everything you need for personal computing! The iLife Suite is MS Office for home computing.


Sorry, but iLife comes no where close to MS Office in terms of features and what you can do with it. Granted, iLife does get the basics down, but in all honesty, what computer can you buy now days from any manufactuer that doesn't have, say, Microsoft Works installed with no time limit? HP, Gateway, Toshiba, and Sony all do for their entire laptop (and desktop, I'd assume, havn't confirmed that) line now. Regardless, OO.org is only a few clicks away.

Either way, MS Office is more powerful.
Automator...with a click of a single button I can automate all kinds of tasks, without even launching a program! For example, my website requires a lot of batch photo processing. I can hook up my camera, from the Finder I right-click, select my automation, it downloads my photos, crops/resizes/compresses them, and sticks them in a specified folder. Hell, automator can even take pictures with my camara!


Google's Picasa. Love it. Of course, I prefer to shoot in RAW and edit my photos first. Granted, doesn't come with a PC, but how the heck does downloading and installing a 4.6MB file waste significant time? :?

iLife is really in no way a replacement for Office. The suite is about DVD creation, movie editing, music management, music creation, photo management, and web publishing. It doesn't really have anything to do with text documents, spreadhseets, databasing, or presentations.

Also, Automator is more like scripting for dummies and can be used for applications and actions system-wide, not just for photo-related things.

Just wanted to clarify :).
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Post by SAK ` »

I assume there is one thing that Windows still doesn't have - the multiple desktops, at least in Leopard, definitely in most Linux OS's, even KDE.
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Post by Quillz »

alink1000 wrote:
Yawner wrote:Its interesting that nobody has mentioned Linux thus far.. With the inroads Ubuntu has been making why hasnt Edgy Eft been included within this comparison? I know its still in planning but with the featurelist it looks like the first Linux Distro is a long time that will really have a viable chance against the Paid OS Market..

Yawnster


lol, Ubuntu sucks and is far inferior to windows. Crappy interface, crappy file system/file formats, etc. (Sorry for double post)
In what way is it far inferior? I'm not trying to raise an argument here; I'm just curious as to why you find it inferior. However, I disagree that it has a crappy file system. The file system is far better than what's used in Windows. In fact, Linux file systems don't even need defragging until the hard drive is nearly full.
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Post by sonyboy »

Could someone recall when Vista is available?
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Post by AdamR »

sonyboy wrote: Could someone recall when Vista is available?


October 25 for OEM and manufactuers, November for businesses, and early January for consumers.

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Post by SAK ` »

Another concern I have is how Vista will play role in schools and colleges. If you don't have Vista or even Office 2007, you can't learn how they will roll with your expense.
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Post by smithy_dll »

Like most schools did with XP, they will probably deploy it like any business would. Install it on new computers and eventually capable existing computers and strip it back to core functions (i.e. no areo, just windows classic theme), etc...

They will run the Pro version for connecting to NT servers such as Windows Server 2003. As for cost, any school of a decent size will have a site license they will just upgrade for Vista.
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Post by sonyboy »

AdamR wrote:
sonyboy wrote:Could someone recall when Vista is available?


October 25 for OEM and manufactuers, November for businesses, and early January for consumers.

- Adam


I'm planning to buy a computer so I have to wait till next year for Vista?
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Post by smithy_dll »

sonyboy wrote: I'm planning to buy a computer so I have to wait till next year for Vista?


Yes, OEM's will have access to it so they can develop their bloatware for it, but you won't be able to buy a computer with it pre-loaded until it's officially launched for consumers.
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Post by www.teamhcn.com »

AdamR wrote:
handy1 wrote:More applications bundled out of the box...get everything you need for personal computing! The iLife Suite is MS Office for home computing.


Sorry, but iLife comes no where close to MS Office in terms of features and what you can do with it. Granted, iLife does get the basics down, but in all honesty, what computer can you buy now days from any manufactuer that doesn't have, say, Microsoft Works installed with no time limit? HP, Gateway, Toshiba, and Sony all do for their entire laptop (and desktop, I'd assume, havn't confirmed that) line now. Regardless, OO.org is only a few clicks away.


Both of you appear never to have used iLife before. iLife is not a competitor to MS Office, iWork is, and even so, it isn't intended as a replacement for it. iWork is intended for very basic word processing and presentation making. iWork includes: Pages (for word processing), and Keynote (for presentations). iWork's extremely low price point is its main charm, and it's more than suitable for everyday use, since a lot of computer owners don't have a need for a powerful program like Excel. I perosnally prefer MS Word to pages, since I use a lot of Word's more advanced features – features that Pages doesn't have. With Keynote, however, Apple has managed to make a piece of software that is easier to use, produces better-looking results, and is an overall better designed piece of software than Microsoft's PowerPoint – and yet it has a fraction of the features PowerPoint has. I say this having spent a lot of time working with both programs. Every time I've done a presentation using Keynote, I've had people come up to me and ask what software I used, and they've always commented on how good it looked; one person actually thought I used AfterEffects, lol. Many other Windows users I know have had exactly the same experiences with Keynote.

Once again, iLife is not a MS Office competitor. These are the programs that come with iLife: iTunes (music player), iMovie HD (video editing), iDVD (DVD authoring), Garageband (music making), and iWeb (basic wyswyg web editor). Then again, MS Office is available for OSX (MS is legally required to continue development), so why are we even having this argument?

Which brings me to my next point: Price. Comparing Macs to PCs simply based on numbers is unfair. When you get a Mac, you're not just paying for the hardware and the operating system. You're paying for bundled software, such as the indispensible iLife suite, to name only one. Given Apple's tiny market share relative to Microsoft's, staying competitive and even staying afloat at times is bound to be a challenge. That must surely affect the price of a Mac. You're also paying for design. Compare anything that Apple's released (software and hardware both) with anything from Microsoft or IBM. Even to the untrained eye, it's obvious that Apple spends far more time (and money) on design, and trying to create products that not only work well, but look good and are a joy to use. When was the last time Microsoft (and especially IBM) released anything at all visually inspiring? Finally, hardware. Yes, you pay more for Apple hardware. Sure, you could find "x" CPU or "y" motherboard for less money somewhere else, but that doesn't mean it'll work as well in the long run as something from Apple.

I spent 2 years working in a design studio. We had 7 Macs and 3 PCs. Most of the Macs were PowerMac G4s, between 4-5 years old, and still running Adobe CS2 pretty fast. The 3 PCs, which were used for web development and 3D graphics, were all scratch-built and kept well maintained by experienced hands. They all used high-end components, including an OpenGL video card on the 3D workstation. Each of the computers cost quite a bit less than the older Macs did at the time we got them. The 3 PCs ranged between 6 months - 2.5 years in terms of age. 2 of the 3 PCs were plagued by hardware failures, and the third one got a virus (we removed it, however). The $2,500 PC graphics workstation we purchased barely a year ago had to have its power supply and motherboard replaced; a half-melted, top-of-the-line DFI mobo is not a pretty sight. We were always careful to turn the PCs off when they weren't in use, and we always kept them adequately cooled, so our hardware troubles remain something of a mystery. On the other hand, most of our 7 Macs were left running almost constantly for years; none of them has ever needed any repairs. I thought I was alone in having had such experiences, but a lot of other people I've talked to have said the exact same things. For whatever reason, Apple hardware tends to last a really long time, without breaking down.

One last point, in response to whoever it was that seemed to imply Apple somehow has an unfair advantage because OSX uses the Mach Kernel. Apple's OS wasn't always like that, and Windows users used to make the same belittling remarks about OS9 and everything prior to that (with some good reason). The OSX we know (and love) today was made possible by technology adapted from NeXTStep, which by all accounts was an OS far ahead of its time. Microsoft has had any number of opportunities to reassess and redesign its OS, and they've chosen instead to keep patching an increasingly bloated piece of software. I've yet to see any Windows release that delivers the kind of technological quantum leap that Apple's OS9 - transition did.
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Post by www.teamhcn.com »

Pricing Comparison
  • Mac OSX Tiger (presumably the same for Leopard)
    Single User License.............................$129.00
    Family Pack (5 licenses)......................$199.00

    Windows Vista
    Home Basic (single user).....................$199.00
    Home Basic (additional license)............$179.00
    Home Premium (single user)................$239.00
    Home Premium (additional license).......$215.00
Mac OSX (single user) vs. Vista Home Premium (single user), with the exceptions of Vista's HDTV and tablet PC support, is a good comparison. Both OSes have many similar features, and both are aimed at consumers wanting to do image editing/management and DVD authoring on their computers. Therefore:
  • Mac OSX Tiger vs. Windows Vista
    Mac OSX Tiger (single user).................$129.00
    Home Premium (single user)................$239.00
Last edited by www.teamhcn.com on Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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