End of the English Language!

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Jim_UK
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Post by Jim_UK »

You are missing the point slightly.
Text speak is not going to be taught and tested. What the examination boards are saying is that where before they would have penalised a candidate for not using correct grammar and spelling they are going to allow the use of text speak as long as the candidate conveys that they have some knowledge of the problem being questioned.

It may rather be the teachers that have to mark this rubbish that will need to be taught text speak.

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Myspoonistoobig
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Post by Myspoonistoobig »

If you're sending messages on a cellphone, txtspeak is a smarter idea than typing each word out properly, because of the difficulty of creating each character.

But, in situations where it serves no need - say, every other one imaginable - it's just lazy and idiotic.

I really don't want to see it become accepted at any point, just because a generation grew up on it and therefore sees nothing wrong with it
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luvvbuzz
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Re: End of the English Language!

Post by luvvbuzz »

one has to ask if the schools or colleges have decided to allow txt speak to help improve exam results, thus granting their establishment more status and putting them in a position for extra funding? hardly a good idea for the student though, this kind of lowering of standards can only have a bad effect on peoples literacy and grammar, parents and students should complain/demonstrate.
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Re: End of the English Language!

Post by Pezzoni »

Personally, I don't care. They may pass some (pretty meaningless at the end of the day) exams, but wouldn't have a chance in hell of getting employed anywhere decent. If I see posts written in text speak on message boards, I don't read them since it's highly likely the person writing them is a moron. If I was looking through job application forms, ones that look like they were written by a mentally disabled seven year old would be going directly in the bin. I'm also pretty sure that the markers would penalise candidates who wrote like that... Would you bother to read and dechyper their paper?
luvvbuzz wrote: one has to ask if the schools or colleges have decided to allow txt speak to help improve exam results, thus granting their establishment more status and putting them in a position for extra funding? hardly a good idea for the student though, this kind of lowering of standards can only have a bad effect on peoples literacy and grammar, parents and students should complain/demonstrate.
This has nothing to do with the schools: in the UK, papers are taken in a school then posted around the country for independent people to mark.
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luvvbuzz
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Re: End of the English Language!

Post by luvvbuzz »

schools dont care about exam results? if so why do pass rates of schools get printed in the press every year then? it might not be the actual schools marking the exams but the schools reputation pretty much rests on its statistics these days doesnt it?
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Re: End of the English Language!

Post by Lastof »

I've avoided commenting on this matter before, since I don't have any evidence behind my theory of what the actual story is, not having read the article, or having had the chance to talk to the people or see the facts the article is based off.

However it is my opinion that this is just the media sensationalising a fairly mundane story. I have found an article in the daily mail, that appears to talk about the same incident.

From the article
The Daily Mail wrote: The Scottish Qualifications Authority (SQA) said the use of phrases like "2b r nt 2b" or "i luv u" in exam papers would be allowed as long as candidates showed they understood the subject.


Now what I think happened was that the boards decided that as long as the meaning was understandable, then the spelling wouldn't matter. This means that dyslexic students, or other students that have trouble with spelling and grammar, wouldn't do badly despite having a good understanding of the subject.

Now, one of the reporters at one of these tabloid rags heard this and thought, "Hey, I bet that means they can use text speak" and rang up the exam board to check. The reply they would have got would be something along the lines of "Well, I suppose so. As long as they convey their understanding of the subject they will get the marks". So the reporter took this, applied their spin to it, and thus we have an article that says that students can officially use txt speak in exams, and that suggests that that is the whole of the new policies.

Now, I would say that they also don't mention that it is a great risk to use txt speak, since the marker may not be able decipher it. If they can't you won't get the marks. Tough.

They also don't mention that in a large number of subjects, such as the sciences, there are already generally few, if any, marks awarded for spelling and grammar. A Level physics for example has 4 marks, and that's all, that can be taken off for grammar. The rest of the marks are for understanding the subject, which I think is the more important aspect.

I think they would like to be able to limit it so that you can't use things like txt speak, but how do you make a policy that allows people to misspell things, but not use it. They can either have a policy that says everything should be spelt perfectly, or that spelling doesn't matter, just that understanding is conveyed. Otherwise you would have a policy that stated something like "spelling must be reasonably good" which is just too wide, too open for interpretation by the teacher marking, meaning that some students might get marked much more severely than others, which wouldn't be fair. They already spend a great deal of time trying to ensure that the level of marking is equal across the country, such a policy would make this impossible.

So, all in all, this is just the tabloids working themselves to the bone to make a story where there shouldn't be one, and giving a bad name to the best possible policy.

I'll shut up now, but before I do, another quote from that article in the Mail
The SQA said today that although text answers were considered "inappropriate" and would not be eligible for top marks, they would still be given credit if expressing a valid idea.
Last edited by Lastof on 04 May 2011, 00:00, edited -1 times in total
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bonelifer
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Re: End of the English Language!

Post by bonelifer »

Lastof my sister has Dyslexia and I find what you said to be highly insulting to people like her. My sister has a BA in Psychology and her Masters in Teaching in Art. She also has only a few classes to finish a Masters in Counseling. Never once did they have to make exceptions to allow her to use TEXT speak on exams or other work turned in. If they had she would of been highly suspicious of their motivations. Their are ways of dealing with exams and Dyslexia such as allowing the test taker longer times to take a test and allowing them to take the test alone with a proctor in a separate room to remove both distractions and allow them to take the test in a less stressful environment. They can also request the test be supplied in a larger font size. These are common accommodations that can be made. Allowing TEXT speak is not allowed and should not be allowed. As was said before, this is just the dumbing down of the minds of our young.
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Lastof
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Re: End of the English Language!

Post by Lastof »

I had no intention of being insulting to dyslexics. I am Dyslexic (and Dyspraxic as well, if your interested).

The point I was making is that dyslexics generally have difficulty with spelling. I can tell you that having extra time does not allow me to spell things better. I still make mistakes, and even with time to go through and spot the (which I usually can, I am very good at spotting misspelling, just not correcting them) they still may not be able to correct them. The extra time is more to do with issues with reading and the speed of writing (or, at least, writing neatly).

My point was that you can't say that people can get the mark if they misspell things, but not for text speak. Then you have a fuzzy line on what is just a misspelling, and what is not allowed. I personally don't like the fact that people do use text speak in exams. However, they can't have fuzzy lines, because that results in rule being interpreted more strictly than others.

It is unfortunate that text speak must be allowed under this policy, however it is better than having a policy where you can not misspell things. It is the lesser of two evils, and that is the point I was trying to make.
Last edited by Lastof on 04 May 2011, 00:00, edited -1 times in total
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CiDhed
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Re: End of the English Language!

Post by CiDhed »

I cant read the whole thing right now but i figured i would post this.

http://www.13wham.com/news/local/story. ... 9&gsa=true
The latest from the “The Most Idiotic Ideas the Left Has Ever Come Up With” file.

WHAM 13: RCSD Newsletter Supports Ebonics
(Rochester, N.Y.) – It’s called Black English Vernacular – or more commonly – Ebonics.
In a newsletter to staff, Rochester City School District officials say it is OK for students and teachers to speak Ebonics in class.

The newsletter, Diversity Dialogue, suggests teachers use BEV to communicate with students. It says teachers can:

• “Switch into BEV in specific situations or informal discussion.”

• “Translate common phrases in Standard English into BEV.”

• “Read and retell stories in both BEV and Standard English.”

“We need to embrace the diversity they bring into our schools,” said the district’s Chief of Diversity and Leadership, Michele Hancock.

Hancock and Tyra Webb-Johnson, Director of Coaching and Leadership, wrote the newsletter. They are both former elementary school principals.

“We want (teachers) to have a better understanding of what BEV is so they can incorporate it into their teaching. That way, they’re not alienating the students who are speaking the vernacular and degrading them,” Webb-Johnson said.

Yeah, that’s encouraging. Two former school principals think that speaking English is “degrading.” What is “degrading” is that these fools have so little regard for the future of black children that they want to encourage the damnation of an entire race of people, a race to which they themselves belong, to permanent underclass status.

Will these kids be able to get good jobs if they speak this “different langauge,” “BEV” (which is just a euphemism for bad grammar, of course)? How can the kids learn to read or communicate in writing or succeed at university? With garbage like this, a pure prodcut of the Left, taken seriously is it any wonder that black kids still trail other in all measurable areas of achievement? Is it any wonder that inner cities are gulags of hopelessness, crime and poverty? It is obvious where the real racism resides.
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Re: End of the English Language!

Post by Pezzoni »

luvvbuzz wrote: schools dont care about exam results? if so why do pass rates of schools get printed in the press every year then? it might not be the actual schools marking the exams but the schools reputation pretty much rests on its statistics these days doesnt it?
You could have at least read my post before beginning an angry rant; I stated that the schools have nothing to do with the marking of the papers, not that they don't care about the results.
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Re: End of the English Language!

Post by emma1989 »

"The Sun" a UK tabloid daily reports that students are to be allowed to use TEXT-Speak to answer questions in our national exams as long as what they write shows they know the subject.


Firstly... it is The Sun :P

Secondly, I can't see this happening; you only have to meet a chief examination officer to see why. The idea is rediculous and I can't see it happening; though if the Oxford English Dictionary becomes a wiki as was proposed... haha.
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Quillz
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Re: End of the English Language!

Post by Quillz »

I don't think it's a good idea allowing "text speak" on written exams.
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Re: End of the English Language!

Post by 3Di »

Quillz wrote: I don't think it's a good idea allowing "text speak" on written exams.


I do think "text speak" shouldn't be allowed at all but SMSs, (who cares?).
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MarkTheDaemon
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Re: End of the English Language!

Post by MarkTheDaemon »

emma1989 wrote:
"The Sun" a UK tabloid daily reports that students are to be allowed to use TEXT-Speak to answer questions in our national exams as long as what they write shows they know the subject.


Firstly... it is The Sun :P


Indeed, a newspaper that is famous for blowing things all out of porportion :mrgreen: .

Personally, I don't see it happening any time soon. Exam boards like Edexel and the governing body, the AQA, are not ones for changing many things :P.

It would be a real shame if it did happen, however. It would probably result in the death of the English language as we know it.

Mark
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Re: End of the English Language!

Post by Cap'n Refsmmat »

There's an interesting parallel that can be drawn here.

I have always hypothesized that people with bad handwriting (not the "chicken scratch" sort, the doctor sort) simply don't have the time to write out everything clearly, or are too lazy to spend the time. By the time they decide to clean up their act, it's too late - that handwriting is there to stay. Trust me, I know the feeling.

In grammar, it's basically the same idea. Nobody wants to spend that much time typing their responses. But while handwriting becomes a habit that's impossible to break, it's easy to learn to use grammar and spelling - and with a bit of practice, your typing becomes good enough that you don't have to "save time." I type faster than I can think out what to say (much to my disadvantage, because what comes out seems to be whatever is in my entropy pool in the time), and I don't have to worry about abbreviating. I already type quickly enough. And I find it convenient when people can understand what I say.

Now, I can understand shortening your words on a cell phone. With predictive typing, it's less work, but typing quickly on nine buttons can be quite a pain. But please, when you have the luxury of all the 26 letters on their own keys, with punctuation accessible not just by a menu but by its own little button, take advantage of those buttons. It's not that hard.
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