Is it wrong to download?

Discussion of non-phpBB related topics with other phpBB.com users.
Forum rules
General Discussion is a bonus forum for discussion of non-phpBB related topics with other phpBB.com users. All site rules apply.
Post Reply
User avatar
AdamR
Former Team Member
Posts: 9731
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:40 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida
Name: Adam Reyher
Contact:

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by AdamR » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:57 pm

Drunky wrote: Then there are the people who would download it and keep it because they like it.


I didn't say there aren't. ;) The original question was asked if I had ever downloaded music "illegally."

- Adam
phpBB Support: Welcome | Userguide | Knowledge Base | Search
Honored supporter of the phpBB Group!
"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." - Isaac Newton

Ryan_W
Registered User
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:39 am

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by Ryan_W » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:28 pm

If you pay and download legal stuff, then it's absolutely fine but downloading pirated stuff when the original is easily available in the market at a price is morally wrong.

Drunky
Registered User
Posts: 309
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:16 am
Location: Kegfarms
Contact:

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by Drunky » Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:07 am

Ryan_W wrote: If you pay and download legal stuff, then it's absolutely fine but downloading pirated stuff when the original is easily available in the market at a price is morally wrong.



What if it wasn't available in the market or if it is at an unreasonable price?

User avatar
AdamR
Former Team Member
Posts: 9731
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:40 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida
Name: Adam Reyher
Contact:

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by AdamR » Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:11 am

Drunky wrote: What if it wasn't available in the market or if it is at an unreasonable price?


Then the respected copyright owners have decided they do not wish to make it available. Why should you not respect their wishes?

I could sell my left shoe for $10,000 if I really wanted to. That's my right. You don't have to buy it if you think it's an unreasonable price.

This whole debate is basically over the idea of "I want it and I'm able to get it for free, so it must be okay." Society would literally fall apart of this idea was universally accepted.

- Adam
phpBB Support: Welcome | Userguide | Knowledge Base | Search
Honored supporter of the phpBB Group!
"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." - Isaac Newton

Gud
Former Team Member
Posts: 597
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 11:02 am

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by Gud » Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:17 pm

AdamR wrote: Then the respected copyright owners have decided they do not wish to make it available. Why should you not respect their wishes?


Why should I?

misterjoker
Registered User
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:20 pm
Contact:

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by misterjoker » Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:00 pm

It's good...
I upload free mixes online my site so who cares, if someone books me then it's good. Good promotion. If you want to sell you cd for $10-$30 OR MORE THEN screw yourself. I don't want to pay more than $5 for a music CD. If you want me to pay for looking at your photos or something screw you. everything online should be free I pay for the internet.

Everything is too expensive. Everyone wants to make a killing off music so downloading for free is good...

but you don't have to pay to go to my site, 100% free music mixes, videos etc...
hard techno, speedcore, splittercore/extratone, breakcore, noisecore, ambient...
Spam removed>>Jim

ENJOY and comment!!!
Last edited by Jim_UK on Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Spam
The most extreme music we've have ever heard!
- BPM Magazine
---------------------------
Mister Joker
www.misterjoker.com

User avatar
AdamR
Former Team Member
Posts: 9731
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:40 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida
Name: Adam Reyher
Contact:

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by AdamR » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:55 pm

Gud wrote:
AdamR wrote: Then the respected copyright owners have decided they do not wish to make it available. Why should you not respect their wishes?


Why should I?


I like your car. I think I'll take it. If you follow this line of thought, you should have no objection to handing it over to me.

The fact of the matter that no matter how physically arbitrary, music is the property of the artists.

- Adam
phpBB Support: Welcome | Userguide | Knowledge Base | Search
Honored supporter of the phpBB Group!
"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." - Isaac Newton

User avatar
Acreo Aeneas
Registered User
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:04 pm

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by Acreo Aeneas » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:08 pm

The music is the property of the artist.

Unfortunately, the RIAA and recording companies like to think they always represent the artists and their interests. They don't always. Then again, the RIAA and recording companies see that "illegal" downloads are "costing" them money. They figure that for each download, it represents a "possible" sale of goods/services.

The main concern I have with all of this is:
1) If a good majority decided not to "download" songs and generally "piss-off" the RIAA and recording companies...will CD prices fall? Well, I would hope they do fall back down to $10 or less a disk. I find myself buying less and less CDs simply because I am now paying $14 to $25 for just 1 CD. (I don't do that p2p downloading stuff. I want the CD booklet, nice art, lyrics on a glossy page, and a nice CD to keep.)

and

2) If the majority still continue to "download" songs...will us legit users suffer by having to spend more money on CDs that are rising in costs every few years? It's not like our salaries/wages rise parallel or even near parallel to the rising costs of everything else (companies being formed b/c everyone wants to be rich/well-off).
Acreo Aeneas

Drunky
Registered User
Posts: 309
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:16 am
Location: Kegfarms
Contact:

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by Drunky » Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:38 am

AdamR wrote:
Drunky wrote: What if it wasn't available in the market or if it is at an unreasonable price?


Then the respected copyright owners have decided they do not wish to make it available. Why should you not respect their wishes?

I could sell my left shoe for $10,000 if I really wanted to. That's my right. You don't have to buy it if you think it's an unreasonable price.

This whole debate is basically over the idea of "I want it and I'm able to get it for free, so it must be okay." Society would literally fall apart of this idea was universally accepted.

- Adam


Actually I was thinking of something really rare and not necessarily because the copyright owners decided not to sell it anymore. Say its out of print and you can't find it anywhere. Even if you search to buy it online what about then?
AdamR wrote:
Gud wrote:
AdamR wrote: Then the respected copyright owners have decided they do not wish to make it available. Why should you not respect their wishes?


Why should I?


I like your car. I think I'll take it. If you follow this line of thought, you should have no objection to handing it over to me.

The fact of the matter that no matter how physically arbitrary, music is the property of the artists.

- Adam


Stealing something physically and downloading something online are two completly different things.

User avatar
AdamR
Former Team Member
Posts: 9731
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:40 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida
Name: Adam Reyher
Contact:

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by AdamR » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:02 am

Drunky wrote: Stealing something physically and downloading something online are two completly different things.


The last I checked, digital information is just as physical as anything else.
Drunky wrote: Actually I was thinking of something really rare and not necessarily because the copyright owners decided not to sell it anymore. Say its out of print and you can't find it anywhere. Even if you search to buy it online what about then?


Music doesn't magically disappear off of the market without the artist knowing about it. Thus by not pushing for at least some form of availability they are in effect not selling it anymore.

- Adam
phpBB Support: Welcome | Userguide | Knowledge Base | Search
Honored supporter of the phpBB Group!
"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." - Isaac Newton

Drunky
Registered User
Posts: 309
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:16 am
Location: Kegfarms
Contact:

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by Drunky » Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:50 am

AdamR wrote:
Drunky wrote: Stealing something physically and downloading something online are two completly different things.


The last I checked, digital information is just as physical as anything else.
Drunky wrote: Actually I was thinking of something really rare and not necessarily because the copyright owners decided not to sell it anymore. Say its out of print and you can't find it anywhere. Even if you search to buy it online what about then?


Music doesn't magically disappear off of the market without the artist knowing about it. Thus by not pushing for at least some form of availability they are in effect not selling it anymore.

- Adam


Can you reach out and touch digital information?

User avatar
karlsemple
Former Team Member
Posts: 39802
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:54 am
Location: Hereford, UK
Contact:

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by karlsemple » Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:56 am

Drunky wrote:
AdamR wrote:
Drunky wrote: Stealing something physically and downloading something online are two completly different things.


The last I checked, digital information is just as physical as anything else.
Drunky wrote: Actually I was thinking of something really rare and not necessarily because the copyright owners decided not to sell it anymore. Say its out of print and you can't find it anywhere. Even if you search to buy it online what about then?


Music doesn't magically disappear off of the market without the artist knowing about it. Thus by not pushing for at least some form of availability they are in effect not selling it anymore.

- Adam


Can you reach out and touch digital information?


can you reach and touch the information on a CD?? or a DVD? No course you cant, you are touching the material it is stored on, in the case of illegal downloads the hard drive is the media rather than the Cd or DVd for example and thus it is still stealing and the same as shoplifting something from a shop :)
Image

Gud
Former Team Member
Posts: 597
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 11:02 am

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by Gud » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:07 pm

AdamR wrote:
Gud wrote:
AdamR wrote: Then the respected copyright owners have decided they do not wish to make it available. Why should you not respect their wishes?


Why should I?


I like your car. I think I'll take it. If you follow this line of thought, you should have no objection to handing it over to me.

The fact of the matter that no matter how physically arbitrary, music is the property of the artists.


If you could make a copy of my car without me losing mine, I would have no objections to it.

If your business model can't survive without artificial restrictions, it's time to change business, not impose more idiotic laws.

User avatar
karlsemple
Former Team Member
Posts: 39802
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:54 am
Location: Hereford, UK
Contact:

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by karlsemple » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:11 pm

Gud wrote:
AdamR wrote:
Gud wrote:
AdamR wrote: Then the respected copyright owners have decided they do not wish to make it available. Why should you not respect their wishes?


Why should I?


I like your car. I think I'll take it. If you follow this line of thought, you should have no objection to handing it over to me.

The fact of the matter that no matter how physically arbitrary, music is the property of the artists.


If you could make a copy of my car without me losing mine, I would have no objections to it.


What if you were trying to sell your car and your neighbour was cloning it and giving the clone away to every person who came to look at your motor for sale?
Image

User avatar
AdamR
Former Team Member
Posts: 9731
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:40 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida
Name: Adam Reyher
Contact:

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by AdamR » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:20 pm

karlsemple wrote: can you reach and touch the information on a CD?? or a DVD? No course you cant, you are touching the material it is stored on


That's a logical fallacy. By touching something that is able to be stored, you are in fact touching something physical. I can store my car in my garage. I can store a hand-carved wooden statue on a shelf. As I said before, no matter how arbitrary, data, in no matter what form, is still physical.

In regards to making a copy of a car, I believe the assembly line works in a similar fashion. While one car itself isn't used to to be copied, the car you are driving is in fact more or less and for the sake of argument the "same" as anyone else's of the same make or model. Should not BMW or Ford profit for the work they put into designing that car?

And if I owned a cloning device, you're darn right I'd charge for it. But I'm not the one doing the cloning. I don't care who is doing the cloning. This isn't at all about selling from person to person. This is about the artist of the music being rewarded for the work they have done. In this point in time, that usually comes in the form of monetary compensation.

- Adam
phpBB Support: Welcome | Userguide | Knowledge Base | Search
Honored supporter of the phpBB Group!
"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." - Isaac Newton

Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”