Is it wrong to download?

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holy dog
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Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by holy dog »

Well to honest, the us is a wacky place. Why do you need to backup you software?
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thecoalman
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Re: Is it wrong to download?

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holy dog wrote:Why do you need to backup you software?
Well many moons ago young grasshopper software came on these things called floppy dics that were not very reliable, that would be one reason. :D
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Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by AdamR »

holy dog wrote:Well to honest, the us is a wacky place. Why do you need to backup you software?
It's a good thing I did, actually. I just lost my XP Pro installation disc. It's a good thing I had a backup copy of it that I made 2 years prior.

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Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by ElbertF »

drathbun wrote:You are presuming that the owner of the content wants the "free" advertising. By sharing your copy, you are taking that choice away from them. The cost of free advertising is loss of control over their content.
Don't you think there should be some changes? Once you publish something, you lose control over it. Artists can't control the music on the CD's they've sold either. Every car company looks under the hood of other cars and steal some ideas, even if the producers of those cars might not "want" it.
drathbun wrote:
ElbertF wrote:But there is no way you can control it, that's the thing.
Doesn't make it right. I can't really control whether someone slashes the tires on my car either.
Of course you're right, but I mean it the other way around. You might know we have some very liberal laws here in the Netherlands, especially those on soft drugs and prostitution. By allowing it under strict conditions they have actually gained more control over it and it's much less of a problem here then in most other countries. Calling me a criminal because I posted a pretty picture on a forum somewhere is just silly (I'm not even sure where the monkey in my avatar comes from :P). If you just allow me to do it when giving credit to the author, I'll put a reference under it and everybody is happy.
ameeck wrote:ElbertF: Are you trying to say that just because many people don't respect the law, that it should be changed..so for example if I came up with some common law violation, you would agree on me, that the action should be allowed? :)
Well.. If the majority of people agree that a law is obsolete, it will change. But I agree it would be much better to change it first instead of just violating it. :P
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Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by ameeck »

That's actually called anarchy :) History knows how things look like then, but after all, people are capable of many things.
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thecoalman
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Re: Is it wrong to download?

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ElbertF wrote:Once you publish something, you lose control over it.
Hypothetically speaking lets say that is the way it is. If I'm a local band with no money what incentive is there for me to to take the time and effort to put out a album. Moreso why would I want to invest money into something that I'm going to have to give away for free.
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Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by A_O_C »

thecoalman wrote:If I'm a local band with no money what incentive is there for me to to take the time and effort to put out a album. Moreso why would I want to invest money into something that I'm going to have to give away for free.
because there are still people out there who will buy your album because they either (a) fear the government so much that they are afriad to download something illegally or (b) dont even know where to start to download

i read a story a few months ago about (the FBI?) cracking down on people who use P2P programs to download music files illegally. one man, 70 years old, was questioned because his grandkids used one of those programs. the guy didnt even know how to turn the computer on.
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Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by ElbertF »

Right now plenty of people would still pay for concerts, a CD or even vinyl, instead of going through the hassle downloading low quality mp3's, or huge lossless files and burn them on a disc. Not a lot of people use their PC as a media center, with large storage and unlimited downloading (not to mention many people are to just scared to catch a virus).

I'm not sure what the future brings though.. Maybe they should try to make a name on the internet before investing any money, a lot of great new stuff can be found online which might not have seen anywhere else (tell me you wouldn't pay to see that guy play live :P). It's a great opportunity especially for smaller artists to get famous.
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thecoalman
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Re: Is it wrong to download?

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A_O_C wrote:because there are still people out there who will buy your album because they either (a) fear the government so much that they are afriad to download something illegally or (b) dont even know where to start to download
Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant, I was trying to say if it was made legal to download and share all the music you wanted and the artists had no protection as ElbertF suggested.
i read a story a few months ago about (the FBI?) cracking down on people who use P2P programs to download music files illegally. one man, 70 years old, was questioned because his grandkids used one of those programs. the guy didnt even know how to turn the computer on.
AFAIK no one has ever been criminally prosecuted by any government authority for downloading pirated music, software or movies for personal use. The FBI is too busy chasing the real pirates turning out millions of copies of DVD's. I think your mixing your alphabet up. ;) People have been sued in civil court by the RIAA. there was just a recent case where they lost and are now being counter sued for invasion of privacy. Personally I hope thet bankrupt them as it's alleged they placed tracking software on their computer.
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holy dog
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Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by holy dog »

Lucky you. You got a good police force in the US. Last time i saw a cop on the streets was four mouths ago and i DO hang out a lot of times. Maybe thats why crime rocket high here in Australia..... Word of advise to all Aussies out there. NEVER EVER VOTE LIBERAL.

P.S- i forgot to tell you guys. Plz DO NOT ask me about saber tooth kangaroos and man eating spiders. True, there are spiders here that can kill you in 3 secs but woundln't not eat you.
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A_O_C
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Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by A_O_C »

and your response to the question of "is it wrong to download" is...? :?
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Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by Anon »

ameeck wrote:That was the basic thought, but you're still violating the rights of the artist...if you want to mix in the end-user distributors, than we'll get a whole another topic for discussion, I don't think that's necessary here.

I never said anything against who download(software maybe), I only think that if they're doing it, they should know what they are doing and that their violationg someone's rights, I kinda get sick of that some people actually say that they're doing the right thing. :roll:
Yes, downloading does violate the law, but it's called copyright infringement, not stealing. Only when everyone knows and understands this can a clear debate happen
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Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by ameeck »

That actually depends from country to country, so rather than to discuss law enforcement/violating which law here and there it should be better to stick to the former topic, Is it wrong to download? You have to take ut a more simple way that pointing out the differences between the individual approaches.

Ok, it might not be stealing in the form people are used to and how they feel the word. But it is still violating someone's rights(that's how we call it)...
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thecoalman
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Re: Is it wrong to download?

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Anon wrote: Yes, downloading does violate the law, but it's called copyright infringement, not stealing. Only when everyone knows and understands this can a clear debate happen
Is there really a difference? Just semantics IMO and it really depends on what ones definition of steal is. Ironically the very first result in Google for "define stealing" uses an IP violation as an example:
...... "This author stole entire paragraphs from my dissertation"
http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=stealing
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Anon
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Re: Is it wrong to download?

Post by Anon »

thecoalman wrote:
Anon wrote: Yes, downloading does violate the law, but it's called copyright infringement, not stealing. Only when everyone knows and understands this can a clear debate happen
Is there really a difference? Just semantics IMO and it really depends on what ones definition of steal is. Ironically the very first result in Google for "define stealing" uses an IP violation as an example:
...... "This author stole entire paragraphs from my dissertation"
http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=stealing
There is a difference, as the whole "well if you steal a chocolate bar the shop loses, so stealing costs money, so stealing [sic] films costs money as well" argument isn't valid because it isn't stealing in the first place. Having a quick look through Canadian and New Zealand criminal law, there is a clause that stealing is only stealing if it deprives the original owner of the thing you're stealing. By downloading a movie, I'm not depriving the studio of their copy, therefore it isn't stealing. Criminal law > intenet definition
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