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Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:44 am
by ElbertF
My point is that not being able to pay for it doesn't make it right to just take it. Expensive software is a luxury, not a necessity. I don't agree with the current copyright laws at all, but IMO gesh13's statement doesn't make sense.

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:07 pm
by AdamR
Ricker500 wrote:Ford can't sue me for selling the car to a friend or even charging him for riding in it. Copyright doesn't work on cars.
Ford doesn't own the property of the car. You do. You could, however, sue somebody for taking it out on a joy ride while you weren't looking.

What Ford does have is control over the design of the car. You can't manufactuer an exact replica of a Ford car, rebrand it, and sell it as your own.

Like I said, while the physical property value might have changed, the right to control how and when it's distributed has not.

- Adam

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:49 pm
by thecoalman
Ricker500 wrote: This is ridiculous since stealing is a totally different matter from downloading. You just can't compare like that, if I have a car I also have the resell rights for it. Ford can't sue me for selling the car to a friend or even charging him for riding in it. Copyright doesn't work on cars.
Copyright. Your argument works against you, you most certainly can resell audio CD's, DVD's and software you have purchased. There's no law against that. What you can't do is make a Copy of it to resell or distribute it. Matter of fact the right to make copies of software for backup purposes and audio CD's to allow for transferring is written into copyright law in US, the Audio Home recording Act specifically covers this for audio CD's.

The only limitation to making those copies is the DMCA which forbids circumventing protection measures which is one of the reasons you can't legally make backups of DVD's.

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:32 pm
by Ricker500
AdamR wrote:
Ricker500 wrote: What Ford does have is control over the design of the car. You can't manufactuer an exact replica of a Ford car, rebrand it, and sell it as your own.
I'm not sure to what laws you are refering but as it works in most european countries you can manufactuer an exact replica of a Ford car and drive it yourself, you can even give it to a friends.

I'm not saying it should be legal to Sell copyrighted material.

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:37 pm
by Ricker500
thecoalman wrote:copyright law in US
I'm sorry to break these news but US law only applies in the US. Even though there are several tries lately to illegalize certain activities in other countries.

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:25 am
by thecoalman
Ricker500 wrote: I'm not sure to what laws you are refering but as it works in most european countries you can manufactuer an exact replica of a Ford car and drive it yourself, you can even give it to a friends.
Not sure what the laws are here either regarding replicas, they do sell kits here for that. For example you can buy a replica Ferarri body and put it on Corvette. Might be that the kit maker has a license from the maunfacturer to use their design, I'd imagine that's the case but I really don't know. However if you wanted to make an exact piece by piece duplicate of a car for sale you would not be able to do that because a lot of the technology in the car is going to be patented.
Ricker500 wrote:
thecoalman wrote:copyright law in US
I'm sorry to break these news but US law only applies in the US. Even though there are several tries lately to illegalize certain activities in other countries.
Copyright law is standardized byThe Berne Convention. If you're country is not part of this treaty so be it, however the economic disadvantages are obvious. Russia recently closed the infamous allofmp3 site because they want to be a part of the WTO.
Since almost all nations are members of the World Trade Organization, the Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights requires non-members to accept almost all of the conditions of the Berne Convention.

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:31 pm
by Ricker500
However if you wanted to make an exact piece by piece duplicate of a car for sale you would not be able to do that because a lot of the technology in the car is going to be patented

This has as far as I know never been tried in a court even in America. If you are going to sell it it is one thing but for your own use? In Sweden it is most definately legal and downloading music has been legal up until 2004.

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:45 pm
by thecoalman
Ricker500 wrote:If you are going to sell it it is one thing but for your own use?
Correct, as far as I know you can re-create patented material for your own use but I'd imagine you'd be walking a very fine line. I'm not a lawyer but I'd imagine if you profited in any way from that technology you'd be liable.