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Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:57 pm
by AdamR
Drunky wrote: Then there are the people who would download it and keep it because they like it.


I didn't say there aren't. ;) The original question was asked if I had ever downloaded music "illegally."

- Adam

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:28 pm
by Ryan_W
If you pay and download legal stuff, then it's absolutely fine but downloading pirated stuff when the original is easily available in the market at a price is morally wrong.

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:07 am
by Drunky
Ryan_W wrote: If you pay and download legal stuff, then it's absolutely fine but downloading pirated stuff when the original is easily available in the market at a price is morally wrong.



What if it wasn't available in the market or if it is at an unreasonable price?

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:11 am
by AdamR
Drunky wrote: What if it wasn't available in the market or if it is at an unreasonable price?


Then the respected copyright owners have decided they do not wish to make it available. Why should you not respect their wishes?

I could sell my left shoe for $10,000 if I really wanted to. That's my right. You don't have to buy it if you think it's an unreasonable price.

This whole debate is basically over the idea of "I want it and I'm able to get it for free, so it must be okay." Society would literally fall apart of this idea was universally accepted.

- Adam

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:17 pm
by Gud
AdamR wrote: Then the respected copyright owners have decided they do not wish to make it available. Why should you not respect their wishes?


Why should I?

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:00 pm
by misterjoker
It's good...
I upload free mixes online my site so who cares, if someone books me then it's good. Good promotion. If you want to sell you cd for $10-$30 OR MORE THEN screw yourself. I don't want to pay more than $5 for a music CD. If you want me to pay for looking at your photos or something screw you. everything online should be free I pay for the internet.

Everything is too expensive. Everyone wants to make a killing off music so downloading for free is good...

but you don't have to pay to go to my site, 100% free music mixes, videos etc...
hard techno, speedcore, splittercore/extratone, breakcore, noisecore, ambient...
Spam removed>>Jim

ENJOY and comment!!!

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:55 pm
by AdamR
Gud wrote:
AdamR wrote: Then the respected copyright owners have decided they do not wish to make it available. Why should you not respect their wishes?


Why should I?


I like your car. I think I'll take it. If you follow this line of thought, you should have no objection to handing it over to me.

The fact of the matter that no matter how physically arbitrary, music is the property of the artists.

- Adam

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:08 pm
by Acreo Aeneas
The music is the property of the artist.

Unfortunately, the RIAA and recording companies like to think they always represent the artists and their interests. They don't always. Then again, the RIAA and recording companies see that "illegal" downloads are "costing" them money. They figure that for each download, it represents a "possible" sale of goods/services.

The main concern I have with all of this is:
1) If a good majority decided not to "download" songs and generally "piss-off" the RIAA and recording companies...will CD prices fall? Well, I would hope they do fall back down to $10 or less a disk. I find myself buying less and less CDs simply because I am now paying $14 to $25 for just 1 CD. (I don't do that p2p downloading stuff. I want the CD booklet, nice art, lyrics on a glossy page, and a nice CD to keep.)

and

2) If the majority still continue to "download" songs...will us legit users suffer by having to spend more money on CDs that are rising in costs every few years? It's not like our salaries/wages rise parallel or even near parallel to the rising costs of everything else (companies being formed b/c everyone wants to be rich/well-off).

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:38 am
by Drunky
AdamR wrote:
Drunky wrote: What if it wasn't available in the market or if it is at an unreasonable price?


Then the respected copyright owners have decided they do not wish to make it available. Why should you not respect their wishes?

I could sell my left shoe for $10,000 if I really wanted to. That's my right. You don't have to buy it if you think it's an unreasonable price.

This whole debate is basically over the idea of "I want it and I'm able to get it for free, so it must be okay." Society would literally fall apart of this idea was universally accepted.

- Adam


Actually I was thinking of something really rare and not necessarily because the copyright owners decided not to sell it anymore. Say its out of print and you can't find it anywhere. Even if you search to buy it online what about then?
AdamR wrote:
Gud wrote:
AdamR wrote: Then the respected copyright owners have decided they do not wish to make it available. Why should you not respect their wishes?


Why should I?


I like your car. I think I'll take it. If you follow this line of thought, you should have no objection to handing it over to me.

The fact of the matter that no matter how physically arbitrary, music is the property of the artists.

- Adam


Stealing something physically and downloading something online are two completly different things.

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:02 am
by AdamR
Drunky wrote: Stealing something physically and downloading something online are two completly different things.


The last I checked, digital information is just as physical as anything else.
Drunky wrote: Actually I was thinking of something really rare and not necessarily because the copyright owners decided not to sell it anymore. Say its out of print and you can't find it anywhere. Even if you search to buy it online what about then?


Music doesn't magically disappear off of the market without the artist knowing about it. Thus by not pushing for at least some form of availability they are in effect not selling it anymore.

- Adam

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:50 am
by Drunky
AdamR wrote:
Drunky wrote: Stealing something physically and downloading something online are two completly different things.


The last I checked, digital information is just as physical as anything else.
Drunky wrote: Actually I was thinking of something really rare and not necessarily because the copyright owners decided not to sell it anymore. Say its out of print and you can't find it anywhere. Even if you search to buy it online what about then?


Music doesn't magically disappear off of the market without the artist knowing about it. Thus by not pushing for at least some form of availability they are in effect not selling it anymore.

- Adam


Can you reach out and touch digital information?

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:56 am
by karlsemple
Drunky wrote:
AdamR wrote:
Drunky wrote: Stealing something physically and downloading something online are two completly different things.


The last I checked, digital information is just as physical as anything else.
Drunky wrote: Actually I was thinking of something really rare and not necessarily because the copyright owners decided not to sell it anymore. Say its out of print and you can't find it anywhere. Even if you search to buy it online what about then?


Music doesn't magically disappear off of the market without the artist knowing about it. Thus by not pushing for at least some form of availability they are in effect not selling it anymore.

- Adam


Can you reach out and touch digital information?


can you reach and touch the information on a CD?? or a DVD? No course you cant, you are touching the material it is stored on, in the case of illegal downloads the hard drive is the media rather than the Cd or DVd for example and thus it is still stealing and the same as shoplifting something from a shop :)

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:07 pm
by Gud
AdamR wrote:
Gud wrote:
AdamR wrote: Then the respected copyright owners have decided they do not wish to make it available. Why should you not respect their wishes?


Why should I?


I like your car. I think I'll take it. If you follow this line of thought, you should have no objection to handing it over to me.

The fact of the matter that no matter how physically arbitrary, music is the property of the artists.


If you could make a copy of my car without me losing mine, I would have no objections to it.

If your business model can't survive without artificial restrictions, it's time to change business, not impose more idiotic laws.

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:11 pm
by karlsemple
Gud wrote:
AdamR wrote:
Gud wrote:
AdamR wrote: Then the respected copyright owners have decided they do not wish to make it available. Why should you not respect their wishes?


Why should I?


I like your car. I think I'll take it. If you follow this line of thought, you should have no objection to handing it over to me.

The fact of the matter that no matter how physically arbitrary, music is the property of the artists.


If you could make a copy of my car without me losing mine, I would have no objections to it.


What if you were trying to sell your car and your neighbour was cloning it and giving the clone away to every person who came to look at your motor for sale?

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:20 pm
by AdamR
karlsemple wrote: can you reach and touch the information on a CD?? or a DVD? No course you cant, you are touching the material it is stored on


That's a logical fallacy. By touching something that is able to be stored, you are in fact touching something physical. I can store my car in my garage. I can store a hand-carved wooden statue on a shelf. As I said before, no matter how arbitrary, data, in no matter what form, is still physical.

In regards to making a copy of a car, I believe the assembly line works in a similar fashion. While one car itself isn't used to to be copied, the car you are driving is in fact more or less and for the sake of argument the "same" as anyone else's of the same make or model. Should not BMW or Ford profit for the work they put into designing that car?

And if I owned a cloning device, you're darn right I'd charge for it. But I'm not the one doing the cloning. I don't care who is doing the cloning. This isn't at all about selling from person to person. This is about the artist of the music being rewarded for the work they have done. In this point in time, that usually comes in the form of monetary compensation.

- Adam