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Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:52 pm
by Drunky
Who thinks its wrong to download? I'm talking about music, games, movies, TV and whatever else.

I want to know why people think its wrong or not wrong to DL anything. I honestly have no problem with it. I just want to get a few opinions on this subject.

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:56 pm
by Cardcaptor Stacey
It depends in what sense. I have no problem with it, if the person pays to download it. If you intend to buy it that's great, if not, it is stealing!

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:17 pm
by hospitalera
I do stock photography and art (illustrations and fractals mainly). Every time somebody downloads one of my images under, f.e. a web license, but then puts it on a product to resell it I loose money, money that hopefully one day will allow me to give up my day job... I guess the same applies for music also, SY

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:47 pm
by drathbun
Pay for download via legal channels is fine.

File sharing of protected content is not.

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:30 am
by Anon
Cardcaptor Stacey wrote: if not, it is stealing!


No it isn't. It's copyright infringement. Different things, different areas of law.

As for immorality, it depends on what it is. I have no issue with downloading TV episodes, because as a result of where I live having limited TV content, programs shown overseas are more often than not shown here. Case in point, I recently downloaded Drawn Together and Arrested Development, as I wish to watch them but they aren't broadcast here.

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:31 pm
by Techie-Micheal
Anon wrote:
Cardcaptor Stacey wrote:if not, it is stealing!


No it isn't. It's copyright infringement. Different things, different areas of law.

As for immorality, it depends on what it is. I have no issue with downloading TV episodes, because as a result of where I live having limited TV content, programs shown overseas are more often than not shown here. Case in point, I recently downloaded Drawn Together and Arrested Development, as I wish to watch them but they aren't broadcast here.
In the US, it is considered stealing. Possibly other places too.

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:45 pm
by AdamR
Techie-Micheal wrote: In the US, it is considered stealing. Possibly other places too.


Technically, so is popping in a VHS/DVD or using your DVR to record a show. Which is why I have no problem with people downloading TV shows. Movies and music are a completely different story.

- Adam

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:14 pm
by Techie-Micheal
AdamR wrote:
Techie-Micheal wrote:In the US, it is considered stealing. Possibly other places too.


Technically, so is popping in a VHS/DVD or using your DVR to record a show. Which is why I have no problem with people downloading TV shows. Movies and music are a completely different story.

- Adam
That's not my point though. Ed keeps saying that it isn't stealing. Well, perhaps not in NZ, but it is in other places. That said, I have no problem with recording stuffs on my DVR. :P Some places will even let you watch online.

Re: Is it wrong to download?

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:59 pm
by laisvai
Drunky wrote: Who thinks its wrong to download? I'm talking about music, games, movies, TV and whatever else.

I want to know why people think its wrong or not wrong to DL anything. I honestly have no problem with it. I just want to get a few opinions on this subject.


I think it is wrong if you can allow yourself to buy it in legal way...Without it some people i think still live in stone age or something :) it lets to know someone more about something, and that makes internet amazing and usefull in my opinion :)

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:59 pm
by Drunky
AdamR wrote:
Techie-Micheal wrote:In the US, it is considered stealing. Possibly other places too.


Technically, so is popping in a VHS/DVD or using your DVR to record a show. Which is why I have no problem with people downloading TV shows. Movies and music are a completely different story.

- Adam


A lot of TV shows I download are for episodes I missed and watch and then delete them.

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:50 am
by drathbun
Regarding downloading / watching TV shows...

Did the copyright holder of the show publish it for downloading? If so, that's their choice, and it's fine. Did someone else record the show and then post it? If so, then unless that right is specifically granted by the copyright holder, it's not legal.

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:50 am
by Anon
Techie-Micheal wrote:
AdamR wrote:
Techie-Micheal wrote:In the US, it is considered stealing. Possibly other places too.


Technically, so is popping in a VHS/DVD or using your DVR to record a show. Which is why I have no problem with people downloading TV shows. Movies and music are a completely different story.

- Adam
That's not my point though. Ed keeps saying that it isn't stealing. Well, perhaps not in NZ, but it is in other places.


Really? I couldn't find anything in the copyright act, the only mention of "theft" was the NET act, although that only serves to criminalise copyright infringement if it's for personal use, not rewrite the fundamental meaning of copyright infringement.

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:40 pm
by Kigen
One thing I hate the most is someone taking something that isn't theirs' (songs, code, etc) and putting their name on it as if they made it.

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:31 am
by Drunky
Kigen wrote: One thing I hate the most is someone taking something that isn't theirs' (songs, code, etc) and putting their name on it as if they made it.


What does that have to do with downloading? Obviously if somebody DLed a Iron Maiden song and claimed it was their own then people would call them an idiot.

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:36 am
by Myspoonistoobig
More harm is being done to society by the industries pushing this issue than the individuals infringing copyright

Copyright and patent are good in concept at some level. In practice, very very bad

Companies that own the majority of the content being disputed esentially do NOTHING. They just sit on content. Their entrie business model involves ownership. They don't do real work, their work is in gobbling up content (such as by signing bands) and then partitioning it out

I don't feel a bit bad about 'stealing' music, movies, or television, and you shouldn't either.

The act itself is not analogous to shoplifting or robbery. It's analogous to not watching or muting television commericals. 'stealing' a file represents only a loss of potential profits. Whereas a real, physical product costs real resources to put on the shelf, a copy of a file on a p2p network is transferred with the bandwidth of the users involved, and stored on the harddrive of the one receiving it.

Stealing music is actually GOOD for small bands: When you're a worthless nobody, you want every single person you can POSSIBLY get, to hear your song.

It is only bad for large companies, whose business model is based around domination of intellectual property and nothing else. And even then, it is only bad because of the slippery slope it implies: They're afraid they will be unseated from their privelged position if this trend continues, because they know there's no substance to what they do, and without the corcercion of the law, they're screwed, they're useless and impotent.

They're not even feeling the effects yet, but if they were, it would be slicing their profit margins thinner, not putting them out of work.

They've been saying since the dawn of napster that it will destroy the music industry. Oh yeah? I'm waiting eagerly for that day. Because people will never stop creating. The concentration of power would only shift to a new entity who eventually climbed to the top when the existing ones crumbled.

Going on 8 years later and it still hasn't happened. But, swallow more tripe, sheep
drathbun wrote: Pay for download via legal channels is fine.

File sharing of protected content is not.


Now log on a secret non-mod account and say what you really think : )


And, while we're posting this using a peice of open source software, I have to say software is the best example. There is no harm to society in stealing proprietary software: There's an endless supply of programmers willing to contribute a version to society that is free as in freedom AND price. If stealing were able to destroy the market for proprietary software, I say good! Get that buggy vendor locked-in crap out of circulation