Your Opinion on Vista?

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yexusbeliever
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Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by yexusbeliever » Tue May 15, 2007 11:31 pm

What is your opinion on Vista? Are you using it? Waiting for the world to be under Vista control first? I like to know so maybe I will go get Vista.

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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by mariotendo » Wed May 16, 2007 5:35 am

When I first heard about it, I was thinking "Oh yay, security and stability improvement!", but I've been reading a lot of reviews for Vista. If you plan on using your computer mainly for home use like listening to music or just browsing the Web, get it. I know some programs I use now might not be compatible with Vista, so I'm going to wait a bit.

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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by karlsemple » Wed May 16, 2007 5:38 am

I have just dropped windows altogether I am now using Ubuntu on my desktop, at first I was not sure if I Like it or not but it is growing on me. I have not tried Windows Vista and do not intend to either, no operating system should swallow that many system resources just to get it off the ground :)
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by smithy_dll » Wed May 16, 2007 6:47 am

Came with my new laptop, and after a hefty RAM upgrade to support the RAM sink that is firefox + MATLAB + office + Visual Studio, it works really well.

I really like it and I feel more productive now as opposed to before, but apples & oranges, I got a new system. Windows XP was strungling on the 768 MiB of RAM I had beforehand.

Little touches such as search in start menu, and Windows Mobility Centre (Start + X) make a nice difference that makes things just work.

Aero glass just works and notice no difference on battery life between it turned on and turned off. Runs fine on Intel graphics.

I like how the backup manager works, no propietry storage formats and it just works.

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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by Jim_UK » Wed May 16, 2007 10:02 am

My new laptop came with XP but a "free" upgrade to Vista if you sent some $ to a place in the Netherlands I think it was. My son got fed up of waiting for his copy of Vista to arrive from the same source and so purchased it and is very happy with it but acknowledges that some of his software does not work. My main worry would be just that plus the possibility of drivers not working.
I understand there have had to be many patches already so guess I am going to wait until the release is little older before I move onto it.

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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by Lastof » Wed May 16, 2007 10:37 am

Jim_UK wrote: My new laptop came with XP but a "free" upgrade to Vista if you sent some $ to a place in the Netherlands I think it was. My son got fed up of waiting for his copy of Vista to arrive from the same source and so purchased it and is very happy with it but acknowledges that some of his software does not work. My main worry would be just that plus the possibility of drivers not working.
I understand there have had to be many patches already so guess I am going to wait until the release is little older before I move onto it.

Jim


My father is in the same situation. Acer's "Express" Upgrade program has so far taken 4 months, and no sign of it yet. After a few phone calls we managed to get through to someone in the know about what is going on. Apparently they have thousands of copies to send out, all of which have to be matched up with copies of Receipt that had to be sent in, and the £15 postage and packaging fees, and a very small team to do it. I think they were in the Netherlands too. Maybe the same people. It all seems badly organised to me.

As for my opinion on vista, well, from installing it on a couple of colleagues computers, I am at best unimpressed. It's not that it was bad, just, nothing that made it worthwhile. Then again, I'm so deep inside Steve Job's distortion field I probably wouldn't notice even if it was good.
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by drathbun » Wed May 16, 2007 1:13 pm

Haven't looked at it, and don't intend to, not for at least a year. My laptop has to remain at the "corporate standard" which means no upgrades, not even to IE7 yet. I have a desktop at home that was specifically equipped to be able to handle Vista (dual core cpu, 4gb of ram, etc...) but until I have time to sort out the issues that I know are waiting for me (drivers, software, and so on) I won't be upgrading it either.

Changing an O/S is about a 3 month project for me. It's not something I look forward to when everything I have now just works. :-)
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by SamG » Wed May 16, 2007 1:54 pm

drathbun wrote: …a desktop at home that was specifically equipped to be able to handle Vista (dual core cpu, 4gb of ram, etc…
This is the depressing bit. Yesterday I sat looking at a similarly configured, brand new notebook a co-worker had purchased. Slick machine. She bought it for IM, e-mail, and managing pictures. Hence “only” 1GB RAM.

Most people don't bat an eye when they buy this kind of hardware to do e-mail. They don't even know what it all means. Something seems very wrong with this picture.

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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by Nicholas the Italian » Wed May 16, 2007 3:20 pm

SamG wrote: Most people don't bat an eye when they buy this kind of hardware to do e-mail. They don't even know what it all means. Something seems very wrong with this picture.

Do you mean we don't need to handle 8 billion bits to send a 3-line email? 8O
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by Techie-Micheal » Wed May 16, 2007 4:03 pm

Nicholas the Italian wrote:
SamG wrote: Most people don't bat an eye when they buy this kind of hardware to do e-mail. They don't even know what it all means. Something seems very wrong with this picture.

Do you mean we don't need to handle 8 billion bits to send a 3-line email? 8O
:lol:

3 line email? Pfffft, with all of the embedded HTML people send?
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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by SamG » Wed May 16, 2007 7:45 pm

Nicholas the Italian wrote: Do you mean we don't need to handle 8 billion bits to send a 3-line email
Well, that depends. Do you want to do it the Vista way, or are you just thinking of what it actually takes to get the job done?

I'm not trying to pick on Vista, by the way. It's just a little depressing that people with relatively simple computing needs don't have meaningful access to relatively simple computers. I've got six (count 'em) laptops sitting right here, five of which are Win2K machines or above, all of which work—and all of which are sitting here because they're “scrap” computers.

So, we end up buying more hardware than we really need (in terms of both quantity and performance) that does less that it really should be able to do. :?

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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by smithy_dll » Wed May 16, 2007 8:50 pm

Techie-Micheal wrote: 3 line email? Pfffft, with all of the embedded HTML people send?


And that's just the signature, which is usually more than 3 lines BTW, at least 6.

The thing is if you want fast internet, you need a CPU that can handle it. If you want WIFI you need a computer that can handle it. If you want to display HTML e-mail, you need more than a terminal prompt and pine.

If you then want to open word documents sent to you that's another thing.

IM, well then you need a window manager.

For IM/E-mail/Web vista runs the basics quite adequately on 512MB RAM. My laptop came with it, and while it was slower, it handled it much better than XP did before on 786MB of RAM, that is before I upgraded for my poweruser/engineering needs.

Sure it was a little slower, but it worked, and it worked well for that kind of usage, especially with Glass turned off.

Break down 8 billion bits, or even half that, you add up the screen buffer, and the driver for it, then the WLAN driver, and the window manager, and everything else and it adds up. Even the keyboard driver, and the synaptics thouchpoint software for the touchpad. The sound driver, and the battery manager, and of course 32bit wallpaper and transparent 256x256 icons, start to add up.

Of course XP is fine for e-mail and IM, but for the simillar hardware, Vista seems to work just as well.

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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by SamG » Wed May 16, 2007 9:15 pm

:lol: Puh-leez. I don't for one minute believe that you need dual core to do HTML e-mail or open up Word attachments.

But, I wax off topic.

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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by beatme101 » Wed May 16, 2007 11:05 pm

Windows XP was horrible, and Windows Vista is even worse. Think of what Windows ME did to Windows 98. That's what Windows XP and Vista are doing to Windows 2000. Bloatware. DRM. I don't want my operating system taking all or most of the resources away from my games and other programs, not to mention how unstable XP was compared to 2000.. I'll bet Vista is even less stable. And driver problems, there's something that I don't want to suffer through. Because Microsoft isn't stopping this path, my next operating system after Windows 2000 expires is still almost certain to be Linux.

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Re: Your Opinion on Vista?

Post by smithy_dll » Wed May 16, 2007 11:47 pm

SamG wrote: :lol: Puh-leez. I don't for one minute believe that you need dual core to do HTML e-mail or open up Word attachments.

But, I wax off topic.
You don't.

And that's what Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs is for.

That is also the reason why you can still buy computers that aren't dual core.

There are also very good economic and social reasons. Sending photos and videos. Again does not require dual core, but it requires a GUI and a media player. Something like a 500 MHz machine would work well.

DRM - where? I can move my data wherever I please and vista has never stopped me.
Stability - seems stable to me. I mean it is not really comparable to windows Me because it had critical multi-tasking and memory issues that the NT kernel doesn't suffer from.

Drivers - if you buy a new computer then your drivers will all work. If they don't you are more than entitled to return the computer to the retailer or distributor for a full exchange or refund under consumer law. If they say no at first, bring the law to their attention and they always buckle at the knees.

Linux - depending on the distro can use just as many resources. Again it really depends on the distribution. Linux is like people, many and varied.

The purpose of an operating system is to manage system resources so you can multi-task and to reduce the burden on programmers increasing the experience of the programmer and user on the computer. Unfortunately this comes at a cost, which as you move into greater and greater hardware specs becomes larger.

If you want to store 100GB of movies, then you have to use a HDD formatting strategy that allows you to address all the bytes on the HDD (ususlly addressed as blocks). The more bytes that needs to be addressed, the more bits are needed for the address and thus waste HDD space just to make sure you can find things. The same with RAM, videos cards and operating systems.

Consumers push these changes on themselves by demanding greater and greater things, and there is a limit to what can be accomplished.

Of course this really comes down to computer scientists because with efficient algorithms, the computational intensity of the application can be greatly reduced. Unfortunately algorithms can be as flawed as human logic at times. And that is just an imperfection in humans you have to realise.

I'm not making excuses, that's just the way things are. It is perfectly engineered for the purpose it was designed for. That is in an internet connected world that is security concious, and requires music and video, etc... And with moving to 64bit.

Another example is the move to IPv6. It uses more space to store the address with the packet you are sending because more and more people are living in the world and getting connected to the internet. Just like the bytes problem described above we need larger and larger numbers to label internet connected computers with. Thankfully with IPv6, this will not be an issue again until we develop nanobots with an IP stack.

There is a famous saying by bill gates that no-one will ever need more than 640 KiBs of RAM. You laugh at it now, but my camera takes 6MB photos. I acknowledge that I need system resources to process that and move on with my life knowing that I am better for the alternative is using film and printing photos, which if you've ever worked with film you know is a dirty dirty water hungry process that wastes natural resources and pollutes.

E-waste is bad, but it is more manageable than cutting down the number of trees we would require in paper. And then storage space for it. And with innitutives like RoHS, and computer recycling almost a reality, the burden is much less. Not to mention by using more efficient computers the computational time is decreased, further decreasing energy usage. Unfortunately for us computers just keep creeping into more and more electronics keeping power usage at approximately the same level.

Architecturally computers are just one big compromise after another. Just like truncating a Fourier or Taylor series. We work with that is possible and feasible, and the results turn out really well most of the time.

This post is way too long.

So in conclusion, the market exists from the very low end right up to the top end to allow users to pick a computer that suits their need. I mean I haven't bought a cray supercomputer. But if you could afford a computer that was slightly faster at loading your e-mail, the salesperson may give you a good enough impression to make you split with that money. And in the end the customer is happy with it all as it works very well for them accessing their e-mail.

Then after time they get annoyed because the IP stack takes too long to read from the HDD and to initialise at boot up. etc... And you end up in this forever upgrade cycle. Not to mention the burden anti-virus software places on computers.

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